Conlang: Re: Thoughts on Tarsyanian verbs (tomhchappell, Sep 28 '05, 0:11)

From:	tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...>
Date:	Wednesday, September 28, 2005, 0:11

Hello, Carsten. --- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Carsten Becker <naranoieati@B...> wrote:

> Hiya, > > Because I had nothing better to do, I finally sat down this > evening and thought about fleshing out the TarÅ›anian verb > morphology a bit more. > > Here's what I came up with: > > * The basic paradigm is: <stem> + (T)AM + person + S

I had to read further to figure out what the " + S" meant.

> > * Due to sound changes, all stems of verbs end in _-a, -Ä_ > or _-aÅ„h_ -- In contrast to Ayeri, _-a*_ always belongs to > the stem of the verb. In Ayeri, the corresponding _-ao_ is > dropped when verbs are inflected. > > * (T)AM is ([non-]future tense) x (im-)perfective x > indicative/conditional/consequencial/subjunctive -- that'll > be fun to inflect ... Note that I think I'll make the > distinction future/non-future arbitrary so that tense is by > default expressed with temporal adverbs like in English and > German colloquial speech. > > * Grammatical persons are 1-3sg/pl, where 3p is divided into > masc/fem > > * S means the case the subject of a sentence has, apart from > the verb's valence. The theta-roles are A, P and > E(xperiencer), where E works as a subtype of P since E > also undergoes an action in some way.

I like the " + S" idea. It makes Tarsyanian's voice system an "information-salience" voice system, among the three super-types of M.H. Klaimans typology of voice systems in his book "Grammatical Voice"; at least, if I understand both you and him correctly, it does so. Other languages fitting into that super-type are some Mayan languages and some Philippine languages. The Philippine languages fit into a type he called "focus-salience" voice systems.

> > DANGER!! UTF-8 used from here on!!! (see at the bottom if > letters appear mangled) > > > CLASS 1: -a (This is not very different from French, so > nothing exciting here) > > Imperfective Indicative Sa > -------------------------- > > APAÅƒTA /a"pA~ta/, v agt: to record, to write sth down; < > avantao, "to record" > > 1sg ayaÅ„ apaÅ„t -a > 2sg vaÅ„h apaÅ„t -e > 3sgm yaÅ„h apaÅ„t -aÅ„ > 3sgf hareÅ„ apaÅ„t -ai > 1pl naÅ„ apaÅ„t -as > 2pl paÅ„h apaÅ„t -e > 3plm yataÅ„ apaÅ„t -a > 3plf treÅ„ apaÅ„t -eÅ„ > > PA /pa/, v agt: to lead; < pitao, "to lead" > > 1sg ayaÅ„ p -a > 2sg vaÅ„h p -e > 3sgm yaÅ„h p -aÅ„ > 3sgf hareÅ„ p -ai > 1pl naÅ„ p -as > 2pl paÅ„h p -e > 3plm yataÅ„ p -a > 3plf treÅ„ p -eÅ„ > > > Imperfective Indicative Sp > -------------------------- > > (I pretend that _apaÅ„ta_ is a patientive verb here -- > actually, since it's an agentive verb, its S must *always* > be an AGT) > > APAÅƒTA > > 1sg ayas apaÅ„t -is > 2sg vÄs apaÅ„t -is > 3sgm yÄs apaÅ„t -ani > 3sgf harÄ" apaÅ„t -asai > 1pl nas apaÅ„t -asi > 2pl pÄs apaÅ„t -es > 3plm yatas apaÅ„t -is > 3plf tarÄ" apaÅ„t -im > > > Perfective Indicative Sa > ------------------------ > > APAÅƒTA > > 1sg ayaÅ„ apaÅ„ -Ã˜ /a."pA~/ > 2sg vaÅ„h apaÅ„ -e /a."pAJ.J\@/ > 3sgm yaÅ„h apaÅ„ -aÅ„ /a.pAJ."J\A~/ > 3sgf hareÅ„ apaÅ„ -ai ... > 1pl naÅ„ apaÅ„ -as > 2pl paÅ„h apaÅ„ -e > 3plm yataÅ„ apaÅ„ -Ã˜ > 3plf treÅ„ apaÅ„ -eÅ„ > > PA > > 1sg ayaÅ„ paÂ· -Ã˜ /pA?/ > 2sg vaÅ„h paÂ· -e /pA?@/ > 3sgm yaÅ„h paÂ· -aÅ„ /pA?A~/ > 3sgf hareÅ„ paÂ· -ai ... > 1pl naÅ„ paÂ· -as > 2pl paÅ„h paÂ· -e > 3plm yataÅ„ paÂ· -Ã˜ > 3plf treÅ„ paÂ· -eÅ„ > > The last syllable of perfectives is dropped. If the verb is > monosyllabic, a glottal stop is added to the stem. > > > Theta-role agreement > -------------------- > > Sa: -Ã˜ > Sp: -Ã˜ > Se: Sp + _ja_ > > Note that _-ja_ is related to _-jaÅ„_ /jA~/, which is the > dative/benefactive ending of nouns. Sa and Sp are not > specially marked because this is already done with person > agreement as listed in the conjugation paradigms above. I > thought that A and P are the core roles of a verb, even more > than E, so I thought I keep them not specially marked. Or: I > was too lazy to make up a third series of personal endings > ;-)

There are some verbs, surely, in which the Experiencer (verbs of emotion, judgement, or mental attitudes) or Perceiver (verbs of sensation, etc.) may be central, along with the Stimulus (as opposed to the Patient, sense the Experiencer or Perceiver is Affected, and the Stimulus is not); but, you may not wish to separate these out into a different lexical class unless you want to complicate your voice system by having both a "basic voice" system (i.e. some verbs are Active and some are Middle) and the "information-salience voice" system you already have. (Many languages do in fact have voice systems of "mixed" type, if Klaiman's book is a reliable guide; usually one of the "types" is dominant -- at least, among his examples, that was the case.)

> > I don't think that there are verbs that have a construct > state as S ... these would be Sc = Sa + _Ä"_ I figured (_-Ä"_ < > _-eÅ„h_ /E~:/, the construct case ending of nouns)

BTW I have read that in some languages which have a "construct state", the "construct state" is the bare, unmarked stem -- no definiteness markers, no case markers, no number markers, etc., no affixes of any kind. In some such languages, any occurrence of a noun that isn't "construct state" has to have some kind of marker or other on it. I'm sorry I can't think of a reference. I have also seen, (I am sure, but I can't think of a reference,) that there is at least one language which does have a specific marker for "construct state".

> > I'm still not sure whether to use > > <j> => /j/ > <dÅº> => /dz\)/ > <tÅ›> => /ts\)/ > > or > > <y> => /j/ > <j> => /dz\)/ > <c> => /ts\)/ > > and for the list > > <Å¡> => /s\/ > <Å¾> => /z\/ > <Ã¡> => /a:/ > <Ã©> => /e:/ > <Ã±> => /J/ > ... > > > Hope you liked it?

Yes, indeed! I liked it a lot. I look forward to getting time to study it. I should have some time around Thanksgiving to do some of the things I've been telling people all year I was going to do when I got the time. Chances are, I won't ever find time to do all of them. Thus Time doth make liars of us all (well, maybe just of me).

> > Best wishes, > Carsten

Best wishes to you, too, Carsten. Tom H.C. in MI

> > > -- > Å„ = n-acute (U+0144) Å› = s-acute (U+015B) > Åº = z-acute (U+017A) Ã± = n-tilde (U+00F1) > Å¡ = s-caron (U+0161) Å¾ = z-caron (U+017E) > Ä = a-macron (U+0101) Ä" = e-macron (U+0113) > Ã¡ = a-acute (U+00E1) Ã© = e-acute (U+00E9) > Â· = mid-dot (U+0183)