Re: Iva Bitova & Kurt Schwitters

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan van Steenbergen" <ijzeren_jan@...>

>
> And about Kurt Schwitters: one of our list members, Paul Edson, posted a
> message about him some eight monts ago. He wrote: "Kurt Schwitters'
_Ursonate_
> is for rhythmic spoken voice, and makes use of phonetic material (but not
> words, at least on purpose) from German."
> And he added two (highly recommendable) links, which are still working:
>
> The score can be found at
> http://www.ubu.com/historical/schwitters/ursonate.html
>
> And a recording from the 1930's of Schwitters himself performing it at
> http://www.ubu.com/feature/sound/feature_schwitters.html
This is fascinating.  I notice he puts question marks after some of his
incomprehensible phrases.  Music can question, though, and express nuances
of emotion.  No... just now listened to the performance.  He declaims it
like poetry; calls it "Sound Poetry."  Weird.

> But I don't think you can call this a "language". I am not a professional
> linguist, but my simple logic tells me that a language can only be
considered a
> language, when:
> - it has grammar
> - the words have meanings.
> Well, the "Ursonate" doesn't meet any of these two criteria. Nevertheless,
it
> is interesting enough.
I agree completely.  And I think the same can be definitely said of Bobby
McFerrin's musical "glossolalia."  I saw him give a demonstration in
Rochester, NY.  He invents meaningless words on the spot, getting his chorus
to repeat some phrase he has invented.  It's haunting and beautiful.  But
when you listen to his CDs, you are tempted to think that this is a foreign
language--an African dialect, perhaps, or Arabic--especially if you're
ignorant of said languages.  Lisa Gerrard I'm pretty sure does the same
thing; and Deirdre DuBois of the group _Ekova_ says in one of her interviews
that she pretty much wings it:  she uses verbal sounds along with her
singing voice to create the feel of a language that is entirely musical--and
only "signifying" in the way that music is.  But again, when you listen to
her, you are tempted into thinking that this is a foreign language.  Chris
and I listen to foreign language CDs all the time--Chinese, Arabic, Czech,
Finnish--and you get used to the "feel" of hearing song in words you don't
comprehend.  McFerrin, Gerrard, and DuBois recreate this "feel"
artificially.  I don't know why this fascinates me so much, but it does.
Maybe it's because I did this kind of thing as a child--singing in my
"heaven cat language" before I turned it into "Tayonean."  DuBois even uses
some of the same "words" over and over again.   I'd like to know from her if
they have any special significance.  The relationship of this musical
phenomenon to real glossolalia is something I'm interested in pursuing.
I've heard actual glossolalia--we live near and have attended (a few times)
a gospel church in our neighborhood--and I've questioned some of its
parishioners about it.  The definitions I've read call it "free
vocalization"--i.e., sounds that sound like words but are without the
grammar and verbal meanings you describe above, but which are attributed to
a divine or oneiric states.  Clearly this differs from DuBois and McFerrin,
but I wonder how much.  Can music be a divine or oneiric state?  Glossolalia
goes back to Pentecost, of course; and in many churches, you have the
speaker speaking in tongues and an interpreter who interprets his or her
utterances to the congregation.  Is it specific only to Christianity?  Or do
you have Speaking in Tongues or something equivalent in Jewish or Muslim
tradition?

The Cocteau Sisters make songs out of a string of English words that are
pretty much nonsensical.  _Heaven or Las Vegas_ is one of my favorite of
their CDs.

> Something completely different: not long ago, I heard an interview with
one of
> the greatest composers still alive, György Ligeti. He said that, when he
was
> young, he had created a whole conworld, including a conlang (called
"Kylyrian",
> IIRC). Elements from this conworld exist in his opera "Le Grand Macabre"
and in
> another, earlier work, the title of which I can't remember right now. But
has
> anybody heard of this language?
> Isn't it nice to know that conlanging has been the domain of a few
celebrities
> as well?
Bravo!  conlanging seems to be the domain of especially creative and
artistic people, it seems to me.  Composers, painters, world-builders,
map-makers--anybody interested in building structures or private worlds.  I
used to be consumed with making maps of invented cities, drawing floor-plans
for ideal houses, making miniatures.  Is there anything else known about
Ligeti's "Kylyrian"?


Sally
scaves@frontiernet.net
Eskkoat ol ai sendran, rohsan nuehra celyil takrem bomai nakuo.
"My shadow follows me, putting strange, new roses into the world."

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