Re: OT Matriarchy (WAS: Re: Simple translation exercise?)

Quoting Aquamarine Demon <aquamarine_demon@...>:

> >>I'm in no position to evaluate the trustworthiness of my sources on
> this
> topic, but I'm told that some Amazonian groups are matriarchical, and
> that
> traditional society (or at least one traditional society) on New
> Caledonia
> is too.<<
>
> Completely matriarchal? I doubt it.
How matriarchical is completely matriarchical? From what I've read, these
societies appear to be farther from gender equality than are modern western
societies, which of course are frequently decried as horrible patriarchies.

> Also, I've read that many cultures
> in
> the Amazon are greatly patriarchial, using warfare to gain the women
> that
> their own population lacks due to female infanticide, both overt and
> covert.
Amazonian is huge. Even with a tiny population density there's plenty of room
for cultural diversity.

> >>What is supposed to be particular relevant vis-a-vis feminism and
> related
> topics in the present-day western ideosphere is that despite women
> wieldling most of the socio-political power in these societies, they
> nevertheless have quite traditional gender-roles.
>
>                                                   Andreas<<
>
> While there are cases where women do hold much social and political
> power
> (in Navajo and Pueblo societies, for example, or precolonial New
> England
> cultures), they are not matriarchies in the strictest sense, as the
> men
> still hold quite a bit of power.
As long as women hold substantially more power than men, I'd be happy to call
a society a "matriarchy".

> Something close to matriarchy may
> exist,
> as in Navajo society, which is matrilineal and matrilocal (meaning, when
> a
> couple marries, they move into the woman's residence). Yet I doubt
> these
> culture's socio-political systems are completely dominated by women.
> On another note, define "traditional gender roles". Gender roles vary
> from
> culture to culture, and what one culture views as a female or male
> gender
> role might be different in another culture.
By traditional gender roles, I basically mean that men are the primary hunters
and warriors, and women the primary child-rearers and doers of, well, homely
things. I can't recall ever hearing of a real-world culture where this is not
the case.

[snip]
> In any case, I'm not sure what classifies as a matriarchy, to be
> honest;
> whether complete social/political control is held by women or if it's
> just
> most. I will say that as far as I know, there has never been complete
> matriarchy. Not being an expert, tho (yet ;) ), I'm not sure.
As said above, for me most being held by women would suffice for
classification as a matriarchy. Similarly with a patriarchy - I doubt there's
ever been a culture where absolutely all sociopolitical power has been held by
men.

                                                           Andreas