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Re: Scythian-Skudra-Sogdian-Saka

From:BP Jonsson <bpj@...>
Date:Sunday, August 27, 2000, 13:32
>Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:16:01 GMT >Sender: Constructed Languages List <CONLANG@...> >From: Leo Caesius <leo_caesius@...> >Subject: Scythian-Skudra-Sogdian-Saka >To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
>I can't help but bring up an interesting theory which tries to explain >Ashkenaz as an Old Iranian ethnic name. I'm actually surprised that BP >hasn't heard this one before. > >Oswald Szemerényi is the author of this one.
I've been taught to be wary of him... [snip]
>He then suggests that Aškuzai, which might be rendered in Hebrew >characters as ’škwz, might easily be corrupted to ’šknz (as nun and waw >are very similar in many variants of the Hebrew script) and subsequently >vocalized as Ashkenaz. [snip]
>The rest of the article is dedicated to proving that the Scythians of the >Greeks were the same as the Aškuzai of the Assyrians and the Sakas found >in the Old Persian inscriptions.
I knew of the Scythians/Açkuzai/Sakas connexion, and hold it true, but the further connexion with _Açkenaz_ was new to me!
>As I was familiar with Szemerényi's >theories, my first images of Steg's "Greater Ashkenaz" were of an >irredentist Neo-Scythia, a Wagnerian fantasy inhabited by hordes of >blond-haired, blue-eyed Jews on horseback (something like Khazaria, had >it survived to this day). > >What would be the limits of Greater Ashkenaz, if it were pinned to a map? >Would it stretch from Cologne in the West to Birobidzhan in the East? >With its own daughter colonies in the Catskills, of course.
In Lucus (my con-timeline -- if you know the cognates of this Latin word you'll see the pun in the name-choice!) the Khazars did persist into modern times. For their present location in Lucus you must however know that the main point of divergence between Here and There is that the Arabs lost the battle at Mahavend in 642 CE. The Arabic expansion was diverted westward, Egypt and Coptic culture playing the role in Arab-Islamic history which Persia holds Here. They held Syria for some time but soon lost North Syria (more or less modern Syria+Lebanon Here) to Byzantium and South Syria to the Persians. Thus the main connexion between Arabia and Islamic Egypt was over the Red Sea, thus also creating a south and south-east drive; in Lucus most of coastal Africa except the Christian empire of Ethiopia and Nubia was early Islamicized, as was Indonesia. OTOH the South Asian divide There is between Zoroastrian Hindustan and Brahmanic Bharat, there being more Muslim influence along the east coast and in Bengal. More importantly the Arabic westward drive didn't stop at the Atlantic coast: they learnt of the existence of islands in the ocean and so Tarik -- Here conqueror of Spain -- discovered the New World in the Khazaria became a Jewish buffer-state between Christian Byzantium and Persia -- Later Russia when Constantinople was taken by Zoroastrian Turks, altho in Lucus there remains to this day a Basileus tôn Romeôn in Syracusa and a Despotes tôn Tzakoniôn in Peloponnesos. There as Here the Sephardic Jews were driven out of Spain in 1492, but for partly different reasons: the Khalif in Kairo and the Christian potentates both regarded the Jewish people as friendly disposed to their common Persian enemies, who had been holding Jerusalem and Judaea for centuries. Eastward flight being harder to achieve the Iberian Jews took ship westward to Almarevica (as the continent Tarik discovered was Hispano- Latinized), establishing a Great Sepharad in south-east Vinlandia (Here: North America). Once there they converted the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Muscogee (Creek) and Seminole nations, making these known to Lucus history as The Five Judaic Tribes. In the Vorspiel to the Great Nordic War Tsar Peter the Great feared on good grounds that the Khazar Khaghan would rather side with his enemies (as Mazepa in fact did Here). His strategem: granting the Khazars safe-passage through Siberia to Almarevica in order to join the prosperous Jewish nations there. Since the buffer-state rôle of Khazaria had become an uneasy one in later centuries the offer was accepted by Davyd, son of the Khaghan Yakav, and the greater part of the people, who were still semi-nomadic rather than settled in cities and villages. Leaving the aged Khaghan and one fifth of the people behind they set out east, two years later reaching the Pacific coast, where they were received by Dutch ships hired by Jewish merchants of Amsterdam with Great Sephardian money. They eventually landed in what is Here Oregon and trekked inland guided by Judaic Tribes people who had come with the ships via Amsterdam. As fate would have it they found the northern Plains Indigenes engaged in a war with more southerly tribes who had become Muslim under the influence of the Sunni sultanate of Meyshiku. The steppe warriors threw their lot in the balance, eventually resulting in the conversion of some portions of their new allied nations. Themselves they took up residence in the southern Plains area, from where they had driven away the "ghazi`s". Khazarian Judaism was perhaps more easily integrated with Plains culture than the Spanish-derived variety would have been, just as Judaism and their own Turkic culture had once been integrated into each other; e.g. such things as the Sun Dance remained, reinterpreted as to its religious content. About the Lucus Khazars there is a saying among their co-religionists: "We will stand naked before the Lord, but the Khazars will at least have their horses with them", since the sacrifice of a horse at a man's burial had been integrated into their Judaism. Alas there was a Trail of Tears in Lucus too: Christian expansionism lead to a war between 1860-65 CE which ended with the conquest of Great Sepharad, its population moving to "the Khazar side if the Mississippi". But that's another story. /BP 8^)> -- B.Philip Jonsson (delete X) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Truth, Sir, is a cow which will give [skeptics] no more milk, and so they are gone to milk the bull." -- Sam. Johnson (no rel. ;)