Re: Obscenities

Dan Sulani wrote:
>
> On 30 Aug, Matthew Kehrt wrote:
> >Hmmmm...
> >
> >Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't the Hebrew /x/ different from the german
> >/x/?  It seems rougher to me.
>
>     I'm also a little puzzled by your question, Matthew.
> If you're asking how the German [x] differs from the
> Hebrew [x], they obviously don't, both being
> voiceless velar fricatives.
*******I'm not sure I agree with you.  I'd say that IPA symbols are
only _approximations_ of sounds.  It is possible to have a sound
"between" two IPA sounds.  I think. [keep reading ->]


>     What I _think_ you may be referring to
> (and please correct me if I am wrong),
> is comparing the  German "ch" against the
> Hebrew "chaf (without dagesh)". For example: AFAIK,
> words in Hebrew with "chaf" (or "hhet" for those who
> don't maintain the difference) are _always_  [x],
>  or an unvoiced _velar_ fricative. In German, however,
> the _written_ "ch" is sometimes pronounced as [x]
> (as in  "doch" or "noch") and sometimes as a voiceless
> _palatal_ fricative ("c cedilla", unicode U+00E7,
> if I'm not mistaken), such as the words "ich" or "nicht".
>     If you are referring to the sound of a palatal
> fricative versus a velar fricative, I think that I
> might agree that the velar seems a bit "rougher".
> ([snip end]
******You are probably right.  I'm not quite sure of what all the IPA
symbols sound like.  I have recordings of them, but the 'c,' (unvoiced
palatal fricative) is messed up and sounds like an english 'y'
(palatal approximate)...

My mom, who speaks German, does not know of any differences between
the pronunciations of the final phonemes of 'doch' and 'ich', which
doesn't help.

SE
-M

--
Saráth evenü, cán el-sayü liné!

"Write a wise saying and your name will live forever." -Anonymous