Re: C-IPA

Christophe Grandsire wrote:
>En réponse à Andreas Johansson <and_yo@...>:
>
> >
> > You seem to've snipped part of what you're replying to, but [@}] for
> > IPA
> > turned a seems sensible. Was [a-] being [A]?
> >
>
>No, [a-] would have no equivalent in IPA (unless they modify it to include
>a
>low central unrounded vowel). [a--] would be [A], but [A] will be simpler
>;)) .
>And as I said earlier, [@}] is actually incorrect, because turned a is
>explicitely defined for roundedness (or rather unroundedness). Although
>I've
>seen it also undefined for roundedness by checking further, so [@}] may
>actually be valid... In this case, it seems the IPA is ambiguous.
Seeing how the IPA chart is organized (or my copy at least), the easiest
description of the + - { } diacritics then seems to be that for consonants
they they move one box in the relevant direction, with the addition that the
dental-alveolar-postalveolar area counts as three columns, and for vowels
they move one line segement, possibly with some special rule for those IPA
vowel signs that don't lie at an intersection of lines (schwa, turned a,
small caps I, Y and U). Is this correct?

Incidentially, it seems pointless to ban using these diacritics from
creating representations of sounds that lack an IPA equivalent (using eg
[t+] for a dental voiceless stop), since allowing it in no way hurts C-IPA's
ability to transliterate IPA.

> > I've spoken about IPA diacritics in this thread? What did I say?
> >
>
>You did refer to X-SAMPA [s_d]. [_d] is the transcription of an IPA
>diacritic.
>So you've indeed confused the C-IPA diacritic + (which doesn't correspond
>to
>anything in the IPA) with the "dental" diacritic of the IPA (which is ^[ in
>C-
>IPA, unless a better proposal for it comes around).
Certainly, I did use that X-SAMPA diacritic, and I may even concede that it
transcribes an IPA diacritic. However, I used [s_d] to mean "voiceless
dental sibilant fricative", not "IPA s-with-dental-diacritic".

It was, essentially, your "without changing any of its other parameters"
comment that confused me. Since IPA signs (when not having diacritics)
aren't modular, keeping some parameters and changing one of an IPA sign
isn't a thought that occur very easily to me.

                                                 Andreas

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