Re: CHAT: use of "they"

Nik Taylor wrote:

> Baba wrote:
> > I must admit this throws me a bit. An example was a US Fire-Drill
> > poster which said "Make sure all personnel is outside and accounted for".
>
> I'm an American, but that sentence just sounds wrong.  I'd say "all
> personnel ARE outside", since "all personnel" has an inherently plural
> nature.  On the other hand, if it were "make sure the staff is outside",
> that would make sense.
I already discussed this in the other post, but why is there no pluralending for
personnel?

> > or the sentences; "Which one of them is a doctor? None of them is."
> > In both cases I'd expect "are" not "is".
>
> Even with "which one" you'd use are?  The English used in the
> Constitution does that "the United States or any are under their
> jurisdiction" - later amendments use the phrasing "the United States or
> any area under the jurisdiction thereof", avoiding the whole number
> issue altogether!  I've read that it wasn't until the Civil War that we
> began saying "the United States *is*", as opposed to "the United States
> *are*", the explanation given was that after the Civil War, we viewed
> ourselves as a *nation* ("is"), whereas before we viewed ourselves as a
> *union* of sovereign states ("are").
This is precisely what happened.  As Shelby Foote said in Ken Burns'
film _The Civil War_, "The Civil War made us an 'is'".   In the South
to this day, there is still much of that thought, that the States have certain
rights which coexist with the national government on an equal status. (It as
much as says so in the Constitution, where all the powers not specifically
given to the national government "are reserved to the States respectively,
or to the people." BTW, one uses a capital "S" when referring to the "States"
as subunits of the US government, but miniscule "s" when referring to
nation-states).

[Actually, sometimes I like to think that it would be nice to restore
the "Republic of Texas" as the official name of the State. Afterall, if
Virginia can be a Commonwealth, then why can't we be a Republic? :)
Of course, that's just nomenclature.]

Interestingly, though (to get back to the point), most other languages still
use a plural verb with the name.  I know German uses "Die Vereinigten
Staaten sind" not *"Die Vereinigten Staaten ist".  What about other languages?
Anyone know if other languages follow English's example and using a
singular verb?


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Tom Wier <artabanos@...>
ICQ#: 4315704   AIM: Deuterotom
Website: <http://www.angelfire.com/tx/eclectorium/>
"Cogito ergo sum, sed credo ergo ero."

We look at [the Tao], and do not see it;
  Its name is the Invisible.
                 - Lao Tsu, _Tao Te Ching_

Nature is wont to hide herself.
                 - Herakleitos
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