Re: German /OY/ (ex: Cloakroom)

Daniel Prohaska skrev:
> -----Original Message----- From: Tristan McLeay Sent:
> Wednesday, May 14, 2008 12:40 AM ”Also, backing up the
> thread slightly, do there exist any Germans who actually
> have [Oy] for the phoneme sometimes called /Oy/ and
> sometimes called /oi/ ?
>
> As someone who has both as distinct phonemes ([Oy], more
> commonly written as /@u\/, is the vowel in "no"; the
> second target is most definitely front, not central like
> u\ suggests) I've never heard a  German person say "eu"
> in such a way that it sounds like anything but [oi], nor
> have I downloaded a recording of German sounds --- even
> one trying to demonstrate that "eu" is /Oy/ --- that
> makes it sound like anything but [oi] (or [Oi]). Is it
> contextual or dialectal or is it just an attempt to say
> "the phoneme isn't exactly identical to the English /oi/
> as in 'boy', so we'll spell it differently", without
> actually using the difference to encode altered
> pronunciation.
>
> Tristan."
>
>
>
> I would rather describe it as [OY]. I don’t think it’s
> wrong to describe it as [OI] as well, since a whole range
> of similar pronunciations can be heard. Though the second
> element of the diphthong is never as high as English
> /oi/. In German it’s more a case of the lip rounding of
> [O] being carried over into [I] making it [Y]. But people
> perceive the diphthong as /oi/, and spell it <eu> or <äu>
> according to the conventions. The Australian /@U/ sounds
> to me as though it has a longer/heavier first element
> that the German diphthong, which has fairly even weight
> on both elements, at least in “Standard” pronunciation
> (broadcast, stage). The second element is also less tense
> in German.
>
> Dan
I've seen the German diphthongs transcribed /ae ao oe/,
which agrees fairly well with how I hear them.  The
second element definitely isn't as high as in their
English counterparts.  I guess /oe/ can be [o2].

/BP