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Re: Kjaginic: 8 points of articulation

From:Alex Fink <000024@...>
Date:Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 22:03
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 11:00:48 +0200, Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> wrote:

> This is how Tengwar fonts work. The normally >tall rectangular Tengwar table is mapped sideways >to the physical keys of the broad rectangular >QWERTY keyboard. Since a picture says more than 1K >words I uploaded one: > >|<>
Forgot about that; another good example. In fact it reminds me I once found one Tengwar font in which the tengwar were bound to keys related to their values in some English mode, and it was _missing_ the characters that that mode didn't use. Excruciating.
>> Ämne: Re: [CONLANG] Kjaginic: 8 points of >> articulation Från: Herman Miller >> <hmiller@...> >> >> Languages like Chinese (with both aspirated >> stops and affricates) could use the voiceless >> stop symbols for aspirated stops. Does any >> language have voiced, voiceless, and aspirated >> stops along with affricates? > >The established practice for Slavic languages is >to use extended stem series III tengwar for palatal >stops and affricates and grade 1 & 2 (descending-stem) >tengwar for retroflex affricates. I'd rather reverse >that, for obvious reasons, but something similar could >be applied to Chinese, so that grade 1 & 2 are q and j >and extended-stem are ch and zh, and Tolkien's otherwise >unneeded symbol for [r_0] could be used for sh, and >series III grade 3 for x.
Not obvious to me, unless you're analysing the palatal ones as underlyingly stops even in languages where they aren't. Anyway if I were making a Tengwar mode for Mandarin I'd prefer not to give Pinyin _q j x_ their own symbols, given that they're purely allophonic: let those realisations be determined by the frontness of the vowel, or if need be use the double-underdot tehta on some other symbol. I forget if it was here that this was being said, recently, but it's true -- Pinyin is not a very nice romanisation if you like tidy analyses. Overspecifies several subphonemic variations as an expedient to teaching standard Mandarin pronunciation. (And then there's the whole ugly #wei #you ~ -ui -iu, and dropping of umlaut on the u sometimes, which don't even correspond to things Mandarin does! Ugly.) Alex