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Pronouns Re: Recalled to life

From:bnathyuw <bnathyuw@...>
Date:Tuesday, October 15, 2002, 12:16
 --- Christophe Grandsire
> > True. And it's true that there are plenty of > languages which just don't mark > plural on nouns. But even in those languages, and > even when in those languages > pronouns pattern like nouns, number is always marked > in some way on pronouns. > English is quite unique in having a 2nd person which > doesn't distinguish > singular from plural, and the fact that most > dialects of English have invented > a way to make this distinction, and use it nearly > always mandatorily, shows > that it must be something people really find > necessary. > > Now, if your language really doesn't distinguish > singular from plural in > pronouns, or only optionally, that's no problem. But > don't try to say that most > European languages do so when English is alone in > that matter (and then only > some dialects of English). >
i think i've already commented on the bac way of dealing with this ( three basic personal pronouns, which don't of themselves define number : sot, wer, lic numerically; each can form collective plurals : sont, wenr, linc; and discrete (term?) plurals : soht, wehr, lihc. singular and numbered forms : sotuy, sotek, sotaj numerically. you can be specific the about number the first time but after that you tend to use the non-specific form ) anyway . . . i was thinking about two other features of bac and how they interact. they are : the semantics of nouns and the use of definite forms. briefly, and i'm sure there are technical ways of expressing this i don't know, not to mention more sophisticated and watertight analyses, nouns can have three different types of semantic value : meaning, reference and connotation. most nouns in bac, like most true nouns in many natural languages, have meaning. many of these will have connotation as well ( by this i mean various emotional/social/... baggage &c ). a few nouns _don't_ have meaning. these correspond generally to what in english are pronouns. some of these have reference ( person, or to something specified in the previous sentence, &c ) and some are referentially empty ( these usually have connotation, altho one noun |tat| has neither meaning, nore reference, nor connotation ) secondly, bac tends to mark nouns as indefinite when they are first encountered ( unless it's a (near-) universally understood concept ) and definite thereafter. this principle extends to proper nouns and pronouns, which both fall within the noun class if i put these together, i get the distinct impression that it would make sense if once a pronoun was introduced ( in the indefinite ) all subsequent definite uses of this pronoun would refer to the same person/s as the original use _even if the speaker changes_. that is, if i say to you |weri Gaj tatos|, can you see that, you could reply |wner [def] Gil Ghaj|, of course 'you' [ie i] can. alternatively you could say |sot [indef] Gil Ghaj| with the same meaning so, the point of this posting ( which probably makes no sense . . . i'm hungry ) : is this competely insane or might it work ? any examples of similar systematic usage ( i know of uses like the english 'so, what do we want for supper' &c ) ? bn ===== bnathyuw | landan | arR stamp the sunshine out | angelfish your tears came like anaesthesia | phèdre __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts


Tristan <kesuari@...>