Re: Vowels in Finlaesk

On 9/5/07, Benct Philip Jonsson <conlang@...> wrote:
> Paul Bennett skrev:
>
> I'm not sure what you mean these systems look like. Are they
> E/e or E/e: or E/e/e:? Surely not E/A:/e/e:?
I don't know of Alg. systems with both length and openness contrast,
but I know of Alg. systems with length contrast, and Alg. systems with
openness contrast. I also understand than ON had both length and
openness contrast.

I'm ending up with the following vowels in total:

i i: i~
 e e:   @ @: @~         o o:
  E                      O
                A A: A~

Nasalized vowels are prohibited in stressed syllables, giving:

i i:
 e e:   @ @:          o o:
  E                    O
                A A:

Long vowels, as well as e,E,o,O are prohibited in unstressed syllables, giving:

i i~
 @ @~
  A A~

The sound changes are modelled on your suggestions, plus some clumsy
meddling of my own:

From ON:

o > @
y > i
y: > iw
9 > e
9: > ew
9y > oj
E > e
E: > E
Ei > ej
& > e
&: > Aj
u > o
u: > iw
Q: > Aw
Q > O
Qu > @w
wr > :w
jr > :j
r > :

Then, in unstressed syllables:

e > i
o,E > @
O > A
: > 0
V(j,w,l,h,0)(n,m) > V~(j,w,l,h,0)

>  > Long stops are allowable (it seems) in at least some of
>  > the local languages (and indeed Inuktitut goes to some
>  > trouble to create them, AIUI), and I'm tempted to take my
>  > cue from those rather than from "mainland" Norse
>  > languages.
>
> Since Alg. lacks a phonemic voicing contrast in stops I'd
> expect something akin to Icelandic:
>
> - _t_ = /t_h/
> - _tt_ = /ht/
> - _d_ = /t/
> - _dd_ = /tt/
This might possibly be an utterly brilliant suggestion.

> I thought of a way to lose ON /r/ by having /r/ and /hr/
> merge and come out as /S/.
I have (inter alia):

hr (> r_0) > r\_0 > S
kr > kr_0 > kR_0 > kx > x
gr > gr > gR > gG > G
rr > :r / V _ (by implication)
r > j / (t,d,n,s,z) _
r > n / _ (t,d,s,z)
r > d / # _
r > l
s > S / _ (t,k,n)
s > Z / _ (d,g)
sl > K
(x,G) > (k,g) / s _

> ON /r\/ OTOH might give
> vowel length. (You'd have to check in an etymological
> dictionary which ON _r_s correspond to Gothic _z_! The two
> sounds merged in the course of the 11th century however.)
Excuse me while I scream. I'm sure Google knows what's where and when,
though it might be interesting to put in place.

I'm thinking about some kind of thing something like

r\ > S / _ V
r\ > j / (i,e,E,9) _
r\ > w

At some point I need to think about doing something with the resultant
jj, ww, wjwwj, and/or etc that may arise, but that's a thingy for
another wossname.

> One thorny problem is how to lose þ. In my Vinlenzka þ > h.
I was just going to keep /T/ and /D/, but lose orthographic thorn.
You've given me an idea, though. Since I already have /K/, would it be
sane to go:

T > K
D > z

> Obviously the
> cleaning patrol would have to take in some Slræling
> vocabulary to disambiguate! :-)
Indeed.

>  > Oh, cuss, cuss, cuss. I'm going to have to change even the
>  > very name of the language.
>
> welcome in the club!
Oh, I have no intrinsic problem with changing the name of the
language. My dismay comes from the work involved in moving and
redirecting wiki pages, and doing search/replace inside wiki 'edit'
boxes. I'll get over it, though, and I might just learn something in
the process, which is always a bonus.



Paul