Re: Saving endangered langs (was Re: Extrapolating languages)

--- Tristan McLeay <zsau@...> wrote:

> > Is there a way we could start programs to
> > save endangered languages?
>
> Become a linguist and start documenting. There
> are already groups there
> trying, but I think the main problem is the
> fact that they don't have
> enough money (the people with it don't see the
> value, one of the many
> negative features of capitalism)
While I don't think we need get into politics, I
don't think it has anything to do with
"capitalism" per se. It has to do with normal
people's (and monied people's) attitudes towards
language. Most people simply do not give a
fiddlers fart for dying languages and do not see
any point whatsoever in saving or even
documenting same. They might be made to
understand that it could be important to people
descended from that culture - but there's nothing
stopping them from either learning that language
or doing the documentation themselves.

Is socialism any better at it? No, except that
such governments steal more money and therefore
have more to spend on those projects if they deem
them necessary.

> and linguists
Agreed. Too many ducks, not enough hunters.

> Also a contributing factor is that
> their sources have a habit of dying on them.
> (And I imagine if you only
> have one source on a particular language, it's
> going to be so influenced
> by the dominant language that you've probably
> already lost the most interesting things.)
Sure, but that doesn't mean an attempt shouldn't
be made!

> > I feel we really need to do something about
> lang extinction; it's
> > extremely sad to see cool ways of doing
> things being lost
>
> There's no way to stop them dying.
The best thing you can do, as a nonlinguist, is
to LEARN. Take any ancient art or craft or
lifeway, learn it and live it. Learn how to knap
flint; how to spin yarn on a distaff; how to make
mead; how to paint frescoes; how to carve stone
using bronze age tools; how to make bronze age
tools; how to speak Cornish or any other dying
language. Pass those skills on to others.
Somebody, somewhere might just be willing to
learn...

> Remember earlier on people were posting
> about the kid who was being taught Klingon: He
> refused to continue because
> Klingon isn't useful.
It, or any natural language you decide to learn
and teach your children, will be useful if it is
spoken in a context. If I learn Cornish and then
always use it for prayer, my kids would pick up
on that and learn the Cornish in that context.
Even if we only rarely use it elsehow.

> Anyone else you teach the
> language to will also
> refuse to learn it once it's down to very few
> people, because it won't be
> practical for them (my mother, for instance,
> stopped using Dutch when in
> early primary school because it simply wasn't
> useful for her; many of my
> Chinese and Malaysian friends did the same with
> their languages; B. P.
> Jonsson I think he said he did it with German).
> The best you can do is
> have them written down on paper which will be
> lost when the Revolution
> comes and Libraries are burnt to a cinder (or
> opened to the floods or
> whatever is more appropriate for the region),
> to say nothing of the fact
> that most paper used these days is so acidic
> that it won't be much use 500
> years later even if the Revolution fails to
> eventuate and I become
> Indisputable Overlord of the World by peaceful
> means.
Well, you can always buy acid free, archival
paper. Or you could learn to write on parchment
or carve upon stone or write on metal plates...

> Which is not to say that it is totally
> worthless; after all, when
> civilisation collapses and we all revert to
> fudalism or something, our
> efforts to prevent slavery and child abuse will
> be easily thwarted.
Unless you're willing to take up as a warlord and
are willing to blow the knackers off any child
abuser that cowers before your Justice!

> I'm merely pointing out that these cool ways of
> doing things will be lost
> regardless of what we do; perhaps, though, we
> can remember how these things were done.
Sure. But there'll always be new cool ways of
doing things as well...

Padraic.


=====
la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.


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