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Re: THEORY: Are commands to believe infelicitous?

From:Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Sunday, June 12, 2005, 6:07
On Saturday, June 11, 2005, at 05:38 , Tom Chappell wrote:

> Hello, the list.  Hello, Ray; thanks for writing.
You're welcome.
> While I was in the clinic in Oklahoma I couldn't use e-mail.  One > consequence was that I didn't know about rejected postings. > The following is one such.  I apologize for any parts that are now > out-of-date. > --- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Ray Brown <ray.brown@F...> wrote: > > [snip] > > Yes - I am not sure I would stress need so much as "trust" > > and "faith". I > > do have a need to make sense, as far as any human can reasonably > > hope to > > make sense, of the vast universe in which we find ourselves. I too > > have a > > belief in life after death because it is part of a coherent set of > > beliefs > > which seem to me to make sense of things. > > But many people do not. 
I am aware of that. But it cannot be proved one way or another - we have to form an assumption on our own experiences, knowledge etc. Some people have a belief in life after death and some people have a believe that nothing survives the death & decay of the body. Either way, it is a matter of trust. [snip]
> Many people consider this world to be the only world, and all effort > and resources spent on any other "world" a sinful waste.
That rather depends upon what one means by 'this world'. And any such ban on teaching about an afterlife would be dictatorial & contrary to freedom of speech. Indeed, the communist regimes did enforce just such a ban.
> > Absolutely! trust and faith. The words for belief & trust are > > related in > > some languages. > > Interesting point.  Which languages?  Related how?  Which words?
Greek, for a start. _pistis_ (noun) = trust [in another person], good faith, trustworthiness, assurance, confidence. _pisteuein_ = to trust, rely on, put faith in, believe.
> > > Quite so. Belief is surely an act of will. I can conclude - > > possibly > > mistakenly - that this person is trustworthy & is not lying to me, > > therefore I will to believe her/him. > > Many people (me often among them) disagree that belief is an act of > will. 
Then you and I simply do not mean the same things by the words 'believe' and 'belief'. ============================================= On Saturday, June 11, 2005, at 07:00 , Joseph Bridwell wrote:
>> Many people (me often among them) disagree that belief is an act of >> will. > > So, what do you label my conscious acceptance of reincarnation?
I call it an act of will on your part. But how Tom sees your conscious acceptance of reincarnation, I do not know.
>> Just as your vision is not subject to your will unless your vision >> is disordered, so some people would say your belief cannot be >> subject to your will unless your belief is disordered. > > Define "disordered", please. I know the Webster's def. I'd like > yours, please.
Quite so. I know Tom does not say specifically that he considers your belief and mine to be disordered, but there does seem to be an implication that it is so.
>> Look at this screen: What color do you see it? Now will it >> otherwise; Does it change color?
Why should I will the screen to change color!!!!! That is silly. I can see the color of the screen. That is not a matter of belief - it is a matter of knowledge. Now if I were blind, I would not know the color of the screen. I would have to rely on/ put my trust in some one else. If several people told me different colors, I would have to decide [act of will] which person I considered most trustworthy. I would believe that person. [snip]
>> Some people would say your belief and your will are related as your >> color vision and your will are.
That doesn't make sense - see above. Ray =============================================== http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown ray.brown@freeuk.com =============================================== "A mind which thinks at its own expense will always interfere with language." J.G. Hamann, 1760

Replies

Joseph Bridwell <darkmoonman@...>
tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...>