Re: syllable importance

On Wednesday, February 18, 2004, at 10:31  AM, Jake X wrote:

> Furthermore, the inclusion and realization
> of various suffixes sometimes depends
> on the number of syllables in a word.
> I can't think of any examples for this--
> does anyone have an example?
English comparative and superlative inflection is often cited as an
example of this kind of thing. The received wisdom is that if an
adjective can fit within a trochaic frame (two syllables, first one
stressed), it takes -er/-est to show comparative/superlative. If it
can't, it uses a periphrastic construction with more/most. Some
examples:

green: fits within the frame; hence greener, greenest
hollow: fits within the frame; hence hollower, hollowest
abrupt: doesn't fit in the frame; hence, more/most abrupt
intelligent: doesn't fit in the frame; hence, more/most intelligent

I'm a bit skeptical about this. Plenty of counterexamples can be found:
'awesome', 'cross', 'eager', 'fake', 'ill', 'like', 'loath', 'mordant',
'placid', 'prime', 'real', 'right', 'rugged', 'wanton', 'wrong' all fit
within a trochaic frame but can't inflect; 'demure', 'mature',
'obscure', 'polite' don't fit within a trochaic frame but can inflect
(at least for some speakers; some sound better than others to me).

So while the syllable-based generalization may be a rough approximation
of what's going on, there's more to it that is still rather mysterious.

Dirk

>
> Jake
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dirk Elzinga" <dirk_elzinga@...>
> To: <CONLANG@...>
> Sent: 18 February, 2004 10:04
> Subject: Re: syllable importance
>
>
>> Alexandre:
>>
>> Muke already mentioned the importance of syllables in determining
>> stress patterns. In addition, many phonological alternations can be
>> best understood if syllable structure is assumed. An example from
>> English is the difference between light and dark (velarized) /l/.
>> Roughly, dark /l/ occurs in syllable codas; light /l/ occurs
>> elsewhere.
>> (The whole story is more complicated than that, but this
>> generalization
>> is essentially correct.) Another example comes from non-rhotic
>> varieties of English, where /r/ is deleted in coda position. Both of
>> these generalizations could be stated without appealing to syllables
>> and their structure, but at a cost; they become cumbersome to express
>> and involve disjunctive environments (i.e., "either before a consonant
>> *or* at the end of a word"), which is often a sign that a
>> generalization has been missed.
>>
>> There is one offshoot of generative phonology (Government Phonology)
>> which makes use of onsets and rimes without the additional claim that
>> these are coordinated into syllables. It seems to work fairly well.
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 17, 2004, at 09:20  PM, Alexandre Lang wrote:
>>
>>> are syllables really important in a language except for poetry?
>>> --
>>>   Alexandre Lang
>>>   allexpro@eml.cc
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software
>>>                           or over the web
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Dirk Elzinga
>> Dirk_Elzinga@byu.edu
>>
>> "I believe that phonology is superior to music. It is more variable
>> and
>> its pecuniary possibilities are far greater." - Erik Satie
>
>
--
Dirk Elzinga
Dirk_Elzinga@byu.edu

"I believe that phonology is superior to music. It is more variable and
its pecuniary possibilities are far greater." - Erik Satie

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