Re: CHAT: "Mister" (WAS: Re: New Lang: Igassik)

On 25 Oct, Steg wrote:

>On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:50:54 +0200 Dan Sulani <dnsulani@...>
>writes:
>>     Things really get interesting when addressing strangers.
>> One can rudely grab their attention: /alo/ (= hey!); one can be
>-
>
>There's a freshman in my college here in New York whose parents are
>Israeli.  He goes around all the time saying "Alo!  Alo!  Alo!" to
>everyone he meets
There is a very big confusion at the Hebrew/English interface
regarding /alo/ and "hello". The English greeting sometimes
is pronounced /halo/, and since Israelis generally drop the /h/
in word-initial position, they can think that  "hello" is really
prounced /alo/ and thus confuse the English greeting with the
Hebrew demand for attention. Going the other way, English
speakers  mentally "put back" the /h/ into /alo/ and then think that every
loudmouth within earshot who is braying /alo/ is being
incredibly polite and greeting everybody!
    Not knowing the freshman you mentioned, Steg, I can't say
whether he was caught in this confusion ,whether he really
understood what he was saying and is just trying to grab people's
attention all the time, or whether it's just that his record is broken
and he's stuck on that particular phrase (  :-)  ).
      I, myself, generally navigate a sea of confusion on a daily basis: I
say
/halo/ on the telephone, /hElo/ in polite company, /alo/ when I am
being ignored, and sometimes /hola/ (= hello in Argentinian Spanish)
to the Argentinians at work.    8-]


>... calling people "hhamor!"
>(donkey).  Whenever he does that to me, i just call him "aton!" (female
>donkey), which seems to be a Biblical period word he doesn't know. (it
>might still be used today, but he still doesn't know it ;-) )
It is still a good Hebrew word, but the situation is IME, similar
to the use of the word "mare" in English. Most native English speakers
know that "mare" is a female horse, but generally say "horse"
when discussing the animal of either sex, unless they have
a reason to be technical. Same for "hhamor"  in Hebrew.
(Even though "hhamor" is, strictly speaking, masculine, it can
often be understood in a more general, genderless, sense.
It is in this sense, I think,  that it is used in cursing. Only if
someone, for whatever reason, wants to emphsize the female
aspect, do they use "aton". )

>Do Israelis ever use "Mar" without a name attached?
No.    ("Mar"  meaning "Mister". Although it is similar in sound
_and_  usage to the abbreviation for mister in English:  "Mr." ,
AFAIK, there is no connection. "Mar" as a
title, with and without an attached name, can be found in the
ancient talmudic literature from Roman times. Although in modern
usage, it is commonly attached to a name, today it is never used
by itself. )

(   >Do Israelis ever use "Mar" without a name attached?

But then, again, the answer is yes!   ;-)  "Mar" also means "bitter", and
in that sense can even constitute an entire sentence. As in
How's the coffee?  "Mar!"

[Sorry about that, Steg! Couldn't resist adding it!  :-)    ]        )



Dan Sulani

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A word is an awesome thing.