Re: Trigger systems

At 01:27 16/02/00 +0100, you wrote:
>Christophe wrote:
>
>> something like deverbal nouns for actor, patient, etc...).
>
>Deverbal nouns? Of everyone on this list, you have the most unusual
>grammatical things (at least imho :). I don't know if you come up
>with them yourself or if there actually is such a thing out there.
>
Is the thing itself or the name I give it that you find unusual? :) Because
the adjective "deverbal" is rather frequent, at least in French
linguistics. And as for deverbal nouns, just think of the mas.dar (s.:
emphatic s) or noun of action of Classical Arabic. :)

>> It reminds me of a question I wanted to ask: in the active sentence "I take
>> the book", "I" is the agent (or actor, I think they are pretty much the
>> same), "the book" is the patient. But in "I see the book", "I" is the
>> experiencer, but how do you call "the book"? experiencee?
>
>I had the same problem when I tried to come up with cases for Rinya.
>I didn't know what case to assign to 'the experienced' (Btw, wasn't that
>you Christophe? The word 'originative' comes to mind...). Anyway, I ended
>up with ablative (motion from) because if you look at it metaphorically it
>kinda makes sense.
>
        It's kinda nice yeah.

>> And in "I look at
>> the book", if "I" is clearly actor, "the book" doesn't seem like a patient
>> for me. Is this also an experiencee?
>
>Hmm... I suppose you could call it Goal 'the thing towards which an action
>is directed'. Or do as I do in Rinya and call it Source 'the place of
>origin' or 'the entity from which a physical sensation emanates (with verbs
>of sensation, attention and speech)'. Yes, Source makes sense.
>
        Yes, Source is a nice thing. Maybe source for the "experiencee" in 'I see
a book' and Goal in 'I look at a book'. Or maybe a differentiation that
would have to do with definition... mmmm, rather nice idea, I was already
thinking of something like that for local prepositions :) . Well, anyway I
keep all ideas :) .

>
>I know there is a somewhat extensive list at SIL. Address:
>http://www.sil.org/linguistics/glossary
>Any book on Semantics worthy of its name should have good lists on thematic
>roles also.
>
        I'm gonna look at it :) .

>PS. In case anyone (except me) found this a confusing mail: two hours
>of sleep, lectures on minimalism all day and three hours of Old Icelandic
>this evening, then out for quite a few beers and still I turn on the
>computer when I get home... Anyway...
>
        I know what it is, I hardly slept the last few nights. :)))

>PS2. Hurry with trigger system of Itakian! We all.EXP wanna see it.SRC now!
>Huuuuurrrrryyyyyy!!!!! :) I should really sleep now...
>
        Okay, I show that as soon as possible (just enough time to make the role
mapping :) ).

                                                Christophe Grandsire
                                                |Sela Jemufan Atlinan C.G.

"Reality is just another point of view."

homepage : http://rainbow.conlang.org