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To Raymond (re: Uusisuom)

From:Daniel44 <daniel44@...>
Date:Thursday, April 26, 2001, 7:38

Once again, my apologies for confusing members of CONLANG with members of
AUXLANG. I receive messages from both in one big list, so I get confused
sometimes as to which person belongs to which list etc.

I am not interested in playing petty IAL politics and never have been. The
reason I wrote out those nine points was in response to a mail from Oskar
who asked me to specify exactly WHY I believed Uusisuom was a beautiful and
unique language.

I know you are not thirteen year old schoolkids and again, I apologise for
the obvious irritation you felt. I was obviously irritated myself by some
comments that seemed to imply I was but a thirteen year old schoolkid (which
I am not).

I do not resent criticism of Uusisuom, and have received some both on this
list and privately at my e-mail address. There is a distinct difference
between saying: 'I think you might have a problem with double vowels being
pronounced properly by new learners' (fair criticism) with 'your language is
at best naive' (unhelpful criticism).

As for your saying that you can produce counters for the nine points I made
in support of Uusisuom, I wonder if these would be valid points or
criticisms for criticism's sake.

For example, arguing that 'red should denote anger and not purple' is not a
great criticism. People learning a language will be able to see the
connection between red and embarassment and purple and anger. Equally,
making the point that compound words can suggest different things to
different people is not a particularly strong point. Learners of a language
adjust. If you want to point out that European languages alone have
influenced Uusisuom, then you would be wrong. The word 'allu' (potato) comes
from Urdu/Hindi language, whilst many of the compound forms are based on

I am hard pushed to think of another language that has inter-connected
vocabulary in the way Uusisuom does (kirti, kiroja, kirojan, kirojahuva,
kirsoika, kirojalu, kirju), but of course if you know otherwise I would be
very interested to hear about it.

Finally, I agree with you that it will be people 'out there' who will make
the final decision about whether Uusisuom is a good or not so good language.
I received an e-mail from a guy in Iceland only yesterday asking for sound
files for Uusisuom and on the same day I found a new member had joined one
of the Uusisuom mailing lists - an 18 year old from Spain. So the language
is taking off internationally and I want to finish by thanking you for the
support you have given Uusisuom in the past. I apologise one last time if my
enthusiasm for Uusisuom may have seemed to get a little out of hand. I will
try to keep a lid on it in future!

Very best wishes,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Brown" <ray.brown@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: Exactly why Uusisuom is such a good language!

> At 8:32 am +0100 25/4/01, Daniel44 wrote: > [snip] > >Also, though I didn't make it clear, I was not referring to you when I
> >of some list members' 'antics'. I was referring to a very small number of > >Auxlang list members. > > So why refer to it on _this_ list. This is Conlang, not Auxlang. The > lists exist for different purposes. > > >Ok, here are some reasons why I consider Uusisuom to be a unique and > >beautiful language, and why I think it could be a success as an IAL: > > [snip] > > Look - all the reasons you list, including the built-in western-culture > metaphors, could be claimed for a couple of hundred of other would-be > auxlangs. As Rick Harrison rightly pointed out, over the past 300 years
> excess of a thousand auxlangs have been created. > > We know where you web-site is; several of us have looked at it. We can
> what you say; we can read the lessons you post here. We are not 13 year > old schoolkids that need the same points hammered home again & again. We > can think for ourselves and make our own judgments. > > All you do be constantly rehashing the "unique & beautiful language" line > and "why I think it could be a success as an IAL" business, is to make
> us weary and put us off looking at any more. > > You will probably not believe it, but, alas, I could easily produce > counter-arguments for all the 9 points you list. I will not do so. This
> not Auxlang, tho you seem to think it is. > > This list is a bunch of guys who like doing or are interesting in the > _construction_ of languages for fun (and, maybe, experimental reasons).
> like exchanging ideas; we tell one another whast we think of some feature > or other; we accept & give helful criticism and advice. We are > co-operative. > > You seem to resent any criticism of Uusisuom, no matter how helpfully it
> intended. You seem to have no other purpose than to (mis)use this list to > propagate your own language as an auxlang. That is what Auxlang is for. > > >10. The Uusisuom language is already being studied and learned by
> >from all over the world, from UK and USA, to Russia and Pakistan, to
> >and Spain. The 'International Uusisuom Association' will be formed
> >and will publish a monthly bilingual newsletter, provide proficiency > >certificates, e-mail tutorials, mailing list access and an international > >pen-pals programme. > > I seem to recall very, very similar words being written by Bob Petry not
> long ago about RapLinRie. > > There are many would-be auxlangs already studied & learnt by students from > around the globe in the way you describe. But their authors do not > constantly praise their creations on this list. When Bob, e.g. wrote the > words I referred to, he never again worried us with the claims of
> - he got on with his own marketing and, apparently, is doing well. > > What this or any other list thinks of your language is irrelevant. The > real judges of the effectiveness or otherwise of an auxlang are the
> of the world. > > Ray. > > PS - I'm getting swamped by traffic at the moment & am way behind with > Unilang & other mailings :=( > > ========================================= > A mind which thinks at its own expense > will always interfere with language. > [J.G. Hamann 1760] > ========================================= >


Yoon Ha Lee <yl112@...>
Padraic Brown <pbrown@...>What can be done? was Re: To Raymond (re: Uusisuom)
Raymond Brown <ray.brown@...>Doing it( was: What can be done? (was: To Raymond (re: Uusisuom)))