Re: Whiteness?

At 2:19 am -0400 4/9/00, Nik Taylor wrote:
>Raymond Brown wrote:
>> Similarly would a 'white' Zimbabwean get classified as African-American.
>> IF NOT, WHY NOT?
>
>Nope.  Egyptian-born Americans, for instance, aren't classified as
>African-American.  African-American basically means an American whose
>ancestors originated in Africa [of course, technically, that would make
>*all* Americans African-Americans, since humanity originated in Africa
>:-)], except for those whose ancestors originated in Northern Africa.
Why should northern Africa be excluded?

But even if we take Africa arbitrarily to mean 'sub-Saharan Africa', I
still suspect the epithet would never be applied to an Afrikaaner who was
granted US citizenship.  Would it even be applied to someone who ancestors
migrated to African from the Indian subcontinent in the high days of the
British Raj?  I suspect not.  I.e. African-American does not mean purely &
simply 'an American citizen whose forebears come from Africa'.  The term
seems to me to be restricted only to those who (a) live south of the
Sahara, and (b) whose ancestors have been in Africa for at least the past
four centuries.

Good grief, I can barely trace my own ancestry back to the last (i.e. 19th)
century - goodness knows where some of my forebears were 400 years ago!

>
>Hmm, it just occurred to me that by the convention of African-American,
>Asian-American, etc., Native Americans could be called
>American-Americans!  :-)
_Logically_ yes. But there seems precious little logic in all this.
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At 3:19 am -0400 4/9/00, John Cowan wrote:
>On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Raymond Brown wrote:
>>...... - I can't help thinking that there seems to be a greater
>> concern with the "pluribus" and too little with "unum" in "e pluribus
>> unum".
>
>A temporary overcorrection, I think.
I sincerely hope so.

>We spent a lot of time emphasizing
>the "unum" to the point of persecuting people who didn't fit.
>The "melting pot" metaphor did a lot of damage.
I agree - the two things have to be kept in balance.  Over-emphasis of one
or the other seems IME to have unfortunate results.

>Me, I like the Canadian "mosaic" metaphor.
To which at 12:47 pm -0400 4/9/00, Jonathan Chang replied:
[....]
>    ::wry evil grin:: I kinda like the "Tossed Salad" metaphor that was
>proposed as being the "true American reality"
Moi aussi!   :)

As some of you may know I dream of a united Europe (even, in my wildest
moments, of a united world) where the old nations states (which IMHO have
not served us over-well) have gone and we have a confederation of regions
in all their diversities.  Some salad bowl that would be  :-)

(But, please, I don't really want to get sidetracked on another thread on
European unity.  I just like the 'salad' metaphore in these similar
contexts.)
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And finally, at 5:57 am -0500 4/9/00, Thomas R. Wier wrote:
>Raymond Brown wrote:
[...]
>> <sigh> One would like to have thought that places like Auschwitz-Birkenau
>> would've made plain to the world what an utter obscenity racism is.
>> Can we not, at least, on this list dump this load of garbage and, er, maybe
>> get back to constructing languages?
>
>It did not happen, however, for too many people in this world, either by
>literal denial,
I can see only two reasons for literal denial: either sheer imbecillity or
deliberate malice.

>or in terms of the psychological connection they never made
>with it.
Moral ostriches IMHO.

>You don't have to deny the Holocaust to think and act racistly:
Too true alas - there are some who certainly do not deny the Holocaust but
regret, rather, that the Nazis were prevented from completing it.

I've snipped the rest of Thomas' mail - not because I disagree with
anything he wrote.  It is, alas, only too true.

That's why, on the whole, I find this thread depressing.

I have no problem defending me views on these issues nor, I hope, in facing
up to these issues.  I would have ducked out of visiting Auschwitz this
summer if I was afraid of the moral, psychological & emotional connections.

But one reason I join lists like conlang is to afford a short period of
escapism.  That's why I suggested we, maybe, returned to conlanging.

Ray.




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A mind which thinks at its own expense
will always interfere with language.
                   [J.G. Hamann 1760]
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