Re: Rotokas (was: California Cheeseburger)

On Sunday, June 20, 2004, at 04:04 , Thomas R. Wier wrote:

> From: "Mark P. Line" <mark@...>
> > > I don't think we have any evidence that Rotokas has ever been analyzed
> > > with so many syllables. Seeing the number '350' in a single *secondary*
> > > source is not a good data point when we can find in a primary source that
> > > Rotokas has 11 phonemes and that its syllable structure is only (C)V.
>
> > I'm jumping in here, and don't much of anything about Rotokas, but
> > how can it have a (C)V syllable structure when the name of the
> >language itself has a coda? Is there some constraint allowing word
> > final codas but not word internal ones?
>
> Eh? I thought it had been stated somewhere in this thread (about a week
> back (IIRC) that 'Rotokas' was *not* the native name of the language.
>
> Basing an argument on a single item is a bit dodgy IMO, and names are
> ever less secure. Isn't this a bit like asking how can French not have
> the phoneme [tS] when the name of the language ends in [tS]?
You are correct, but given that most modern field researchers are
taught explicitly to use the community's actual name for the language
 -- not just because it's polite, but because it's a practical way to
get the community to keep giving you access to their speakers -- I assumed
(as it turns out inappropriately) that a lesser known language like
Rotokas would be likely to be known by the community's name for it.
This was clearly a bad move, so I will repent of it.

 =========================================================================
Thomas Wier	       "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics    because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago   half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street     Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637