Re: Padraic's numbers (fi: JG's list of conlangs)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steg Belsky" <draqonfayir@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: Padraic's numbers (fi: JG's list of conlangs)


> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:46:33 -0400 John Cowan <cowan@...>
> writes:
> > English (broadly considered), so it's reasonable.  If the English
> > *here* can count their sheep (real sheep, not the kind you count
> > when
> > you have insomnia) in slightly garbled Welsh ("Yan, tyan, tethera,
> > methera,
> > pimp, sethera, lethera, hovera, dovera, dick" is the version I'm
> > most
> > familiar with; many others have been collected), and one of their
> -
>
> That sounds like fun :-P
>
> [je@n]
> [tje@n]
 [e@]?  [&], I would think.

> ['tET@r@]
> ['mET@r@]
[D], I would guess, from intuition.

> [pImp]
> ['sET@r@]
> ['lET@r@]
> ['hVv@r@]
> ['dVv@r@]
I would guess [O], here.  I'm not quite sure.  And I doubt the [h] would be
pronounced in 'hovera'.

> [dIk]
>
> ? something like that ?
>
> What are the actual Welsh numbers?
Welsh ones?  I'm giving the pronounciations I hear, as an anglophone.

un - [i:n]
dau - [dai]
tri - [tri]
pedwar - [pedwar]
pump - [pimp]
chwech - [xwex]/[xuex](|we| might be a dipthong, I'm not sure)
saith - [saiT]
wyth - [uiT]/[wiT]
naw - [nau]
deg - [deg]

The ones John gave, AFAIK, are generally seen as the last remnant of
Cumbrian.  The system in question here comes from Borrowdale.  Incidentally,
this system was referred to in 'The Wee Free Men', by Terry Pratchett.

yan - cognate with |un|
t(y)an - things in this system tend to come in pairs.  This is cognate with
|dau|, but influenced by 'yan'.
tethera - This is cognate with |tri|, and influenced by 'methera'
methera - cognate with 'pedwar'.  This is sometimes seen as pethera or
fethera, too.
pimp - Rather obviously cognate with pump
sethera - not particularly obviously cognate with 'chwech'.  Looks like
'six' though.  Influenced by 'methera', again.
lethera - Don't have a clue.  Could be made up, in order to distinguish it
from 'sethera'.
hovera - It might be pronounced without |h|, as they do up north.  Which
would make more sense.  Again, not sure on this one.
dovera - n > d?  Maybe originally 'novera', which looks kind of similar to
[nau]. which would explain. 'hovera', as being influenced by novera, but
being consonant-less(initially), it just got transformed entirely.
dick - this is obvious, really.

In this system, 15 is 'bumfit', and 20 is 'jiggit', or something similar.
After 10, you have 'yan a dick', 'tan a dick', and so on, until 15.  After
15, it's yan a bumfit, tan a bumfit, again, until 20.  I assume it goes yan
a jiggit, then, but I don't know.  I don't think the system goes much
further than 20.

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