Re: LeGuin (was: a 12th century conlang)

John Cowan wrote:

> Sally Caves scripsit:
>
> > Neither did she really ever construct a language the way we do.  I readin an
> > article that she "faked it."  In "Walking Away From Omelas," she
> > came up with the name of her invented world by spelling "Salem O!"
> > backwards.  When asked if she did what Tolkien did, she said no.
>
> I think this somewhat misrepresents UKL, who is too modest to
> associate her quite legitimate conlanging with JRRT's heroic lifelong
> efforts.  (I can't give citations for what follows.)
Perhaps so.But I'm only quoting what I read in the interview of UKL, John.A dated
one.

> If many of her conlangs are primarily onomastic, what's wrong with
> that?
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it.  My own languagewas very strongly
onamastic to start.  What I meant was that theinterviewer (some twenty years
ago... prior to Kesh) probed her about
just this kind of thing, and she gave a response that was similar to the one
that Brenda gave to me last October.  If she's developed, that's wonderful.
I haven't read _Always Coming Home_.  But I also know how easy it is
to make a conlang on a superficial level and sort of fake the rest.  I've done
that in plenty an unpublished short story.  Don't get me wrong.  UKL is one
of my favorite authors.   I have great respect for her.  I DO know that to
produce the body of work that she has done, you don't have much time
for detailed work on a language.  Why am I not as published as UKL?
I'm doing way too many things.  I'm not focussed.  I'm leading an academic's
life.  I'm writing academic articles and books.  I'm conlanging as well with
a fury.  If I had wanted to be a serious science fiction writer I would be
doing that instead of this.  Successful writers focus.

> We don't talk much here about onomastic conlangs (those whose
> vocabulary consists of names) but IMHO they are as legitimate as any
> other artlangs.
We were talking just a few days ago about the _Lingua Ignota_.  I'vedone this very
thing when making up vocabulary (nouns) for Teonaht.   I was
going to suggest that we conlangers produce some taxonomies similar
to Hildegard's:   Let's see a list from some of you with at least twenty items
in each of these categories:

    1.  God, gods, angels, saints, and demons.
    2.  Human family relationships.
    3.  The parts of the body.
    4.  Diseases of the body.
    5.  Names relating to Church or Religion
    6.  Names relating to Secular Hierarchies, the parts of Government
    7.  The parts of trade and human craft.
    8.  Days, months, seasons of the year, hours, minutes.
    9.  The Quotidian things of life: clothing, houses, farming.
  10.  The parts of the Natural World.

That would make two hundred words.  What a challenge!

> Kesh exists as a phonology, a vocabulary (with some interesting
> lexicalizations), and a script: morphosyntax is lacking.  Many other
> artlangs can say no more.
>
> UKL says somewhere that she was able to write a couple of short poems
> in Karhidish, but has forgotten most of the language now.  I submit
> that a conlang you can use for poetry is a "real" conlang.
I'm so tired of this argument, and arguing with people who take umbrage.We all
know what we're doing here, and the validity of
what we're doing.  Do we have to rehash the whole Bob LeChavalier
argument all over again?  "Valid" languages, "valid" conlangs?  Haven't
I amply demonstrated in my frequent postings to this conlang over the
last year that I'm eclectic and tolerant?   Sometimes I get anxious
about the short wait period that Netscape gives me in composing a
letter and don't edit my missives.  So what the phroka?  <G>


> I don't think there's a shred of evidence that UKL disdains the
> conlang passion, and some evidence that she actually possesses it.
I don't believe I said she did, John, and if I did, then it was a misnomer.I just
didn't think that she threw herself into the passion of this the way
some of us do.  That's not a criticism.  Just an observation.  Even Brenda
Clough wasn't "disdaining" conlanging... she just wasn't interested in
pursuing it with the fervor that I and Tim did.  She was focussed.  And
successfully selling her books.  Even Tolkien felt he paid a price for
spending so much time on his languages.

Wearily and again, always again, migrainously, Sally