Re: word poll #2: articles
|From:||Andreas Johansson <and_yo@...>|
|Date:||Saturday, May 11, 2002, 20:44|
>From: Garrett Jones <alkaline@...>
>so, how do you translate the following meanings into your conlangs? I can
>see several constructions possible:
>1. articles like in english
>3. sentential word order
>4. syntactic constructions
>5. not overtly expressed (it's the default)
>6. distinction not made
>note: i didn't use meanings of 'the' or 'a' that i found weren't an
>"article" usage. I provided a lot of examples because some of these are
>T* = the, A* = a/an, N* = [none]
>TA. a certain one being spoken of/already mentioned (introduced by AA).
>-The story ended.
>-So then I smacked the guy.
Tairezazh has a definite article _ez_ (unchanged un all numbers and cases,
but with phonologically conditioned allomorphs _es_ and _e'_, the apostrophe
signifying a "lost" sound like in English).
Eg: _E' zgaik zglashk_ "The story ended"
>TB. hypothetical instance of (introduced by AB).
>-I want a girlfriend. The girl has to be cute.
>-I need some paint. The paint is going to be used here.
There's no indefinite article. Your first example would translate as
something like _Ta zrón kanzianas. Es stelza ai tsin dair._ (_kanziana_ is
actually rather "female lover" - the Tairezans don't really have the concept
of a girl-/boyfriend in our sense).
>TC. the one and only (geographic/environmental/locational)
>-The sun is very hot today. (both occurances here)
>-The sky is bright today.
We-ell, from the Tairezan POV, the is no one and only sun, nor a one and
only sky. Sure, we could speak of _e' zau_ "the sun", but that'd be speaking
of THIS particular sun as opposed to THOSE other suns.
>-The world is falling apart.
Haven't decided what "the Universe" is in Tairezazh, but I figure it's gonna
be a proper name.
>-I don't like the weather.
>-He came to us from the north.
_Seno skenk sous tan zreth dasht_ with no article. (_Dasht_ actually means
the direction from Earth to the Galactic centre, but whatever.)
>-I walked to the edge and contemplated jumping. (the edge of a cliff)
>-Let's meet at the entrance.
>-Where is the bathroom?
As English in all three cases
>TD. the one identified by/as (the modifier of the noun)
>-the man who answered (as opposed to the one who ignored his phone)
>-the hit of the week (as opposed to the hit of the year)
>-the right to strike (as opposed to the right to remain silent)
>-You can be the father in our play.
>-The purple people eater is here to get us!
>-What is the point of your story?
>-The coffee in my cup is hot.
>-Which one was the movie that you hate?
>-We take the air we breathe for granted.
>TE. an integral part or clothing of the obvious entity (possessives can
>be used for these in english)
>-I smacked him in the face.
>-Take me by the hand.
>-You should hold your mug by the handle.
>-The surface is extremely hot, don't touch it.
>-I held him by the collar.
>As English, except I'm not postive what "Take me by the hand" means.
>TF. that which is present/close, as opposed to remote
>-The day has just started (as opposed to the next day)
>-Where has the year gone?
>TG. the one designated/named. related to NC.
>-the President (of the u.s.)
Well, on it's own, you'll see f'rinstance _ez elko_ "the emperor", but "the
X of Y" is generally converted into "Y's X"; _Kesheai elko_ "the emperor of
>-the Mississippi (river)
Would be a proper name that takes no article.
>-the United States
Lower-case "the united states" would be as English - if used as a proper
name the article would drop.
>TH. the one considered the best, most fashionable (usually emphasized)
>-That is *the* restaurant in town.
Haven't decided on this kind of thing yet.
>TI. specified period of time
>-the dark ages
>TJ. taken as a representative of the entire genus or type
>-I'm learning how to use the typewriter.
>-The cow is a domestic animal.
Probably the equivalents of "I learn to use typwriter" and "Cows are
>TK. for an adjective used as a noun
>-the good, the beautiful, the true
Same as English, if you mean "the good (one)" etc. Otherwise I dunno.
>AA. a certain one speaker has in mind.
>-I saw a burning house on the way to the store.
>-He has a nice car/some nice cars.
>-I'm going to marry a Swede. (in response to: what is the nationality of
>No indefinte article. Probably "His car is/cars are nice" for the second.
>AB. any one of them in existence
>-I need a girlfriend.
_Ta graif kanzianas_ with no article (an same comment re _kanziana_ as
>-I'm going to marry a Swede. (in response to: In twenty years, what type of
>person will you marry?)
>-I need some paint.
>"I need paint"
>AC. in copulas, equality
>-I am a doctor.
>-That is a harmless snake.
>-As a young girl she slacked off in school.
>NA: a discrete amount of (for a non-count noun). (the word "some" can
>be used before the noun).
>-I need water.
>-We need rocks for this project.
>NB: generalizations, applying to all the members of a type of
>-Gold is very valuable.
>-Guns are dangerous.
>-I really don't like stupid dogs.
>-He lacks intelligence.
>-Anger is a destructive emotion.
>-We really hate school.
Probably with article - we're hating the particular school we're forced to
go to. If we're hating school in general, we're gonna say the equivalent of
"We really hate schools", most likely.
>NC: proper nouns. related to TG.
>-Let's run away to Mexico.
>-Where is Main Street?
>-I don't speak Greek.
We'll, that's alot of "As English"s! Uncreative guy I am ...
PS A nice Tairezazh word I happened to need the other day;
_zhreishkerganeielener_. It's the dative plural of _zhreishkerganeiel_
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