Re: THEORY: Xpositions in Ypositional languages {X,Y}={pre,post}

In the last episode, (On Sunday 23 September 2007 10:17:22), Jeff Rollin
wrote:
> In the last episode, (On Saturday 22 September 2007 15:36:25), Eldin
> Raigmore
>
> wrote:
> > ---In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> wrote:
> > >Quoting Eldin Raigmore <eldin_raigmore@...>:
> > >>(As near as I can tell nobody thinks there are suprapositions or
> > >>transpositions.)
> > >
> > >A supraposition, I suppose, is a suprasegmental feature that serves
> > >the function of  an adposition,
> >
> > Right, basically a "suprafixed adposition".
> >
> > >but what is a transposition?
> >
> > Some people sometimes refer to what happens in the Triconsonantal Root
> > Systems of some Afro-Asiatic languages as "transfixes".  By parallel with
> > prepositions, postpositions, inpositions, and circumpositions, I made up
> > the terms "supraposition" and "transposition" to mean a "a suprafixed
> > adposition" and "a transfixed adposition".
> >
> > >I was going to say I could easily imagine a supraposition, supposing
> > >my supposition as to meaning be correct, coming into existence from
> > >a postposition first becoming asyllabic and then turning into a
> > >toneme - imagine a development like _aba su_ > _abas_ > _abà_ where
> > >_aba_ is some noun and the grave is low tone - but then it struck me
> > >if we discover such a beast in the wild, we would likely call it a
> > >case-form, not an adpositional phrase, at least by the third stage.
> >
> > Dryer's paper says that many of the things he calls "adpositions" for
> > purposes of this paper are sometimes called other things (e.g.
> > "relators") by some other authors.  He goes on to say that adpositions
> > and case-affixes are included in a somewhat larger class he calls "case
> > markers".  So, yes, for purposes of this paper, I suppose a suprafixed
> > case-marker would count as a supraposition (though nobody actually uses
> > that term); a transfixed case-marker would count as a transposition
> > (though aren't the Semitic triconsonantal roots mostly verb-roots? so
> > natlangishly attested transfixes are mostly in conjugations rather than
> > in declensions?); an infixed case-marker counts as an inposition; a
> > circumfixed case-marker counts as a circumpositions; etc.
> >
> > >I guess I should go read the paper you linked to and find out
> > >exactly why
> > >
> > >Dyer
> >
> > "Dryer", n'est-ce pas?
> >
> > >thinks the Tagalog inpositions are just that
> >
> > I've read it.  I'm not confident I've understood it, but I think I could
> > if I tried hard enough long enough often enough.
> >
> > >and not case inflections.
> >
> > I think he might think some of them are inpositions _as_well_as_ case-
> > inflections, rather than _instead_of_ case-inflections.
> >
> > >Perhaps the same distinction, if there be one, is applicable to
> > >suprasegmentals ...
> >
> > I'd be interested in any natlang examples anyone comes up with.
> >
> > I'd also be interested if anyone feels like putting any of them in a
> > conlang; or knows of a conlang where anyone has already done so.
> >
> > >Andreas
> >
> > Thanks for writing!
> >
> > -----
> > eldin
>
> You can go too far, of course. For example, suppose a language has nouns
> with a "normal case" and a "construct case", where e.g. the normal case of
> "beit" means "house" and the construct case "bet" means "house of" (yes,
> this is inspired by Semitic). Would the lack of an "i" in the construct
> case qualify as a "minus-" or "teleposition" (where "minus-" or "tele-"
> means "take away"? I think not! And even if it were, how would it deal with
> cases
> like "sefer/sifrei" (scroll - normal case/construct case), where the
> difference is not the extraction of an "i" but the changing of the first
> "e" to "i", of the disappearence of the second, and suffixing of "ei" (or
> if you prefer, of the switching of "er" to "re" and the suffixing of "i")?
>
> Jeff
Oops! Since the example quickly degenerated into a blatant ripoff from Hebrew,
the translation of "sifrei" should be "scrolls of".

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