Re: Fictional auxlangs as artlangs (was Re: Poll)

Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> Hallo!
>
> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:24:36 +0000, R A Brown wrote:
[snip]
>>> and if a fictional natlang is an artlang (which is probably
>>> not in doubt at all), a fictional auxlang is an artlang as
>>> well.
>> Yep - I don't see why not.
>>
>> I marked the auxlang box, however, because (a) the majority of my
>> teenage creations were auxlangs
>
> Ah, teenage creations.  I tried an auxlang in my teens, too.
> It never went anywhere, and no written records of it are in
> existence any more.
I tried a lot more than one     :)

They never went anywhere because none were ever published. Yes,
practically no written records of any of these youthful compositions are
AFAIK in existence any more. I write 'AFAIK' because a year or so back I
did come across some notes I made in January 1953 for a language I named
'Voldapeko.' Who knows? I may discover other juvenalia some day.

> I did not check the auxlang box because
> serious auxlanging is something I have completely and utterly
> left behind.  I may one day come up with a *fictional* auxlang
> or a *parody* of an auxlang,
Parodies are so easy! Indeed, some actual proposals give the appearance
of parodies of earlier attempts    ;)

> or an attempt to flesh out the design issues I laid down in
>
> http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/auxlang-design.html
>
> as an intellectual exercise,
Indeed - that is exactly what Piashi is: an intellectual exercise. On
reflection, may be I should've ignored youthful exercises (altho they
were certainly serious then) and not check the auxlang box.

> but I am not going to seriously
> propose any of my creations to be used as an auxlang.
>
> The race is already over, at least for the next few centuries
> to come (nobody can say what will be in 1000 years); English
> is the winner, like it or not.
Indeed - right throughout history people have used natlangs (or
internalized natlangs) as auxlangs, e.g. Akkadian, Aramaic, Koine Greek,
Medieval Latin etc., etc

>>       and (b) it is one of the stated
>> objectives of Piashi, tho one I am not pressing (Thinks: "Is Piashi also
>> a fictional auxlang?").
>
> Most auxlangers would probably find fault in Piashi, for
> which reason ever.
Of course - when I left Auxland, the different Neo-Novalist factions
were finding fault with one another's version of what it considered
Novial to be. Piashi would get flamed to cinder in Auxland     ;)

> I don't think it is a good idea to
> present it as an auxlang.  You *could* of course make it
> into a fictional auxlang in some fictional world, but
> I think Piashi could stand very well just as what it is,
> namely an experimental engelang, and doesn't really need
> a fictional background to it, nor a proposal to use it
> as an IAL.
No, I'll not give it a fictional background since, in truth, it's
background is not fictional. I think you are right, it is an
experimental engelang.

>> Piashi BTW seems to be taking on a life of its own - and I'm not
>> altogether happy at the way it's going!
>
> At least it is alive.  Don't despair; many projects
> happen to turn out somewhat differently than originally
> intended.  But if a project goes into the wrong direction,
> there is usually the option of saying "Stop!" and guiding
> it back onto the right path.
...which is what I'm attempting to do at the moment   ;)

> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:03:41 +0100, Philip Newton wrote:
>
>> I'd like to disagree on the Klingon front; its vocabulary is much too
>> limited to be useful as an auxlang, and the vocabulary canon has
>> traditionally been considered closed, with new coinages not being
>> licit.
>>
>> (I suppose some kind of Neo-Klingon might be elaborated by a kind of
>> Klingon Eliezer Ben-Yehuda, but that would be a separate language.)
Oh dear, I shouldn't have chosen Klingon as an example. What I meant is
that any language could be used as an auxlang if people so wished it.
Vocabulary can always be expanded. May be I should have picked some
other conlang as an example - Lojban? Even Sindarin or Quenya could be
expanded to serve as an auxlang if UN so wished it (now there's an
interesting alternative history    ;)


--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Frustra fit per plura quod potest
fieri per pauciora.
[William of Ockham]