Re: Word length as a function of word frequency

----- Original Message -----
From: "And Rosta" <a.rosta@...>


> Sally:
> > Dear Dirk,
> >
> > Can you explain your beautiful chart below in layman's terms?  I'm
unsure
> > what a "segment" is as distinguished from a syllable, or how we are to
read
> > the chart.
>
> (is it more polite to let Dirk answer, or to not ignore the question?)
Not to ignore the question. :)  I think Dirk checks in a few times a week,
unlike the rest of us monomaniacs. :) :)  So, thanks!

> Segment = phoneme, very roughly.
>
> > Also. what linguistic rule has observed that the more frequent
> > word tends to be the shorter one?   More Anglophones will say or write
the
> > words advertisement, conversation, and peculiarly than they will say or
> > write fop, doff, and dap.
>
> Frequent words tend to be shorter. But AFAIK it is not the case that
> shorter words tend to be frequent. Hence "advertisement" gets
> shortened to "advert" and "ad". ("Conversation" doesn't get clipped,
> but perhaps we compensate by using plesionyms like "chat" and "talk".)
Well now I understand what you meant by your other post.

> > I was once told by a non-linguist, who thought he knew something on the
> > subject, that I should make sure that my "function" words in Teonaht
were
> > monosyllabic; that it was a linguistic rule that function words and
pronouns
> > were short, across the board.  I was tremendously skeptical, even though
I
> > had already made sure of that years ago--for Teonaht.  It was the
"across
> > the board" remark that cooled me
>
> I'm sure you know better than your would-be advisor. If there is a
> tendency for function words to be shorter, it is because (a) frequency
> begets shortness and (b) information-poor words tend to be unstressed,
> function words are information-poor, and lack of stress begets
phonological
> reduction and hence shortening.
Yes, of course.

> > Most Teonaht words are two syllables, a few words are five syllables,
very
> > few longer than that.  Tatilynakose, "disgusting," is one of my very
early
> > words, and I can't for the life of me get rid of it.  It's very
frequently
> > used. :)  Erahenahil means "paradise," and that one, too, is pretty
common
>
> There must be countervailing factors that resist shortening. Such as
> expressiveness; you show how very disgusting something is by devoting
> extra syllables to doing so. As for "Erahenahil", I conjecture that
> words for sacred things are more resistant to shortening, since to
> defile the name is to the defile the named.
Exactly!!  Alas, though, the average word, many of them commonly used, is
two syllables long.  I have fewer words that are one syllable long that
aren't function words.  I've been trying to explain them as base and stem,
but... heh heh... it's far harder to rewrite linguistic history than to
invent it.

> All of which goes to show what we all say -- Teo is a living breathing
> organic soulful language.
Why thank you, And... I think Tepa and Tokana are, too, and many here,
including your Livagian, once you are ready to show it to us!

Sally Caves
scaves@frontiernet.net
Eskkoat ol ai sendran, rohsan nuehra celyil takrem bomai nakuo.
"My shadow follows me, putting strange, new roses into the world."