GÃ©arthnuns Pronunication Guide (was Re Translating 'Imagine' (( Code-switching in music))
|From:||Douglas Koller <laokou@...>|
|Date:||Monday, October 15, 2007, 22:33|
From: Benct Philip Jonsson <conlang@...>
> > Douglas Koller <laokou@...>
> > From: Benct Philip Jonsson <conlang@...>
> > > > On 2007-10-11 Douglas Koller wrote:
> > >> > > zçakfaçens
> > > > Doh! I guess this is *not* [Zakfa'SEns].
> > Close: [z\akfa's\~Es]
> > *A certain class of nouns invoke nasalization (SAMPA site
> > says mark nasalization *before* the vowel, which, though a
> > little counter-intuitive to *me*, is the convention I'm
> > employing here), so:
> I daresay I never saw it followed -- anyway CXS puts ~ after
> the nasalized thing.
> I guess you mean [z\akfa's\E~s].
Well, since like it better that way, too, I'll dare to be a rebel and put
nasalization after heretofore.
> Actually [z\] and [s\] were
> my first choices, since ç is [s\] in Sohlob. In practice I
> have grave difficulties distinguishing [z\] and [j], since
> /j/ is [z\] more often than not in my variety of Swedish.
Took me a while to get this in Shanghainese, see below.
> > > > Why am I inclined towards final stress, BTW?
> > It works here.
> Only in this particular word?
I haven't found a consistent rule on syllable stress. Sometimes it doesn't seem
to matter so much, being more influenced by the word's position in the
sentences as a whole ("an 'airtight con'tainer" vs. "the 'room is air'tight" (I
realize this may not be the case for all English speakers), getting a loose
iambic sentence rhythm. More final stress words than in than English, I'd
hazard a guess. Stress *does* move to that föths (noun marker) syllable when
you add case endings:
'teshers - cat (nom.)
te'shersaut - cat (acc.)
zçkfa'çens - religion (nom.)
zçkfa'çensat - religion (acc.)
n'tesels - grape (nom.)
nte'selsít - grape (acc.)
> It's all pretty much as I've been hearing it in my head!
That's what one might hope for.
> I especially like _zç_ for /z\/: that's a digraph in my taste
> (altho I notice _y_ is unused...).
"y" seemed superfluous, since "í" covers [j], and as a high school student, I
wouldn't have thought to ascribe other values to "y."
When I transcribe Shanghainese for myself, I use "yy" for /z\/ (I have my reasons),
but for Géarthnuns, I like "zç" as the voiced counterpart to "ç". Polish
diacritics would've been a bear.
> Of course ch dh sh th for /tS D S T/ etc. is very much
> against my taste -- I'd used c þ ð š ž. The only proper use
> of -h is for aspiration or devoicing IMNSHO. You may call it
> my pet transcriptional peeve.
Were I to do it over again, I might opt for other transcriptions (though I doubt
thorn and edh would've come to mind).
I'm not at all pleased with splitting digraphs when they no longer have digraphic values:
cher-ha (so that you get /tSE4'ha/, not /tSE'Xa/
ífa-u (so you get /i'fau/, not /i'fO/
I should have nipped stuff like this in the bud a long time ago, but...
Too, computer renditions of diacritics were virgin turf for me 10-15 years ago, and
if you think I'm going back now and revamping years and years of documentation,
you crazy. I'll continue to use the "Wade-Giles" of Géarthnuns romanization,
warts and all (aesthetically pleasing romanization was never a design goal
(good thing :) ) ); if someone else wants to coin a "pinyin" or "lwomatzyh"
scheme, be my guest :)