Re: OT: German reputation

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:08:50 -0500, Pascal A. Kramm <pkramm@...> wrote:

>On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 07:33:41 +0100, Philip Newton <philip.newton@...>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:03:47 -0500, Pascal A. Kramm <pkramm@...> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 01:02:27 +0100, Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>
>wrote:
>>>
>>> >Hi!
>>> >
>>> >"J. 'Mach' Wust" <j_mach_wust@...> writes:
>>> >>...
>>> >> It's one of the cases that clearly show the advantage of the new
>>> >> ß-rules: In the old spelling, the pronunciation could be either
>>> >> /tSYs/ or /tSy:s/, in the new spelling |tschüss| the only
>>> >> pronunciation unambiguously is /tSYs/.
>>>
>>> It clearly is NO advantage, also before the only possible pronunciation
>>> was /tSYs/.
>>
>>If I understand you correctly, you are saying that "a word spelled
>>|tschüß| can only be pronounced /tSYs/ since |üß| word-finally always
>>encodes /Ys/ and never /y:s/"... which doesn't work in my accent since
>>|süß|, for example, is /zy:s/ and never /zYs/.
>
>Following the Standard High German pronunciation (which I was referring
>to), it can only be /Ys/, but of course dialects differ from the standard
>pronunciation (otherwise they wouldn't be dialects).
You're making a completely fool of yourself since you're keep claiming
things about "standard German" that are easily proved wrong by anybody who
makes the least possible effort of research. Please stop claiming things
about "standard German" that aren't true. Those of us who don't know enough
German to see that you're wrong may be mislead by your repeated wrong
assertions.

This is not a conlang where you can invent whatever you wish, but a natlang
that you should properly learn before making any affirmations about it and
where others can prove you to be wrong. I don't accuse you that you don't
know German, you certainly do, but you have repeatedly shown that you don't
properly know what the standard pronunciation of German is.

The language German on one hand occurs as "standard German". There's a
"standard pronunciation" of standard German which you can see in the book I
pointed out to you, the Duden Aussprachewörterbuch. It will tell you that
_süß_ is pronounced as /zy:s/. Of course, there are many regional
pronunciations of standard German, e.g. the one you're constantly referring
to (which has some very interesting features).

>So any dialect has some pronunciations which differ from the standard
>pronunciation, and which actually make out the dialect.
On the other hand, there's also the local dialects of German which differ
from the standard not only in pronunciation, but also vocabulary and often
even in morphology and syntax.

gru@s:
j. 'mach' wust