Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

(Hawaiian) Words for "boredom"

From:Roger Mills <romilly@...>
Date:Wednesday, June 19, 2002, 22:13
David Peterson wrote:

>In a message dated 06/18/02 3:43:39 PM, romilly@EGL.NET writes: > ><< Does your dictionary give a proto-form? (snip most of proposal for Haw.
manaka: < prefixes **ma-Na, base -ta?a < AN *taqan
> Oddly enough, it does not; they're usually pretty good about that. The >missing consonant could be *? or *h, since all glottals were lost, but why
>the other two have to be frozen prefixes?
True, they don't have to be. But my first impulse is to view ma- almost always as the frozen stative prefix, which shows up on lots of verbal/adjectival forms throughout Oceania. **Na- is a little dicier... The alternative is a compound-- but does/can Haw./PN "mana" refer to the human mind/personality?
>Anyway, in a reference section I'm >looking at in another dictionary, though, they're saying that they >reconstruct some long vowels as just double vowels, the example they give >being: >Maori: taaura >Hawaiian: ka:ula >From PEP: taaula
Meaning........? At least two possibilities: (1) compounds of _***ta( )a - ula_, or (2) again, an attested frozen prefix *ta- with sporadically lengthened vowel, which happens. PEP is sort-of the end of the line, historically speaking, comparable to: (vastly simplified) PEP < Proto PN < Proto Oceanic < Proto Austronesian, cf. Spanish < Latin < Proto Italic < PIE
> >So maybe the last vowel could be reconstructed as long...?
(Or double vowel.) That works for individual langs. and various subgroups of PN, where most long-V arise from consonants lost since PPN times; a pesky few seem to show sporadic (i.e. inexplicable) lengthening. PPN itself had a few double vowel sequences, but all (I think) resulted from C-loss since POC times. POC however retained AN CVCV(C) structure pretty faithfully-- there were lots of mergers in the consonants, but very few outright losses. Doesn't seem
>likely. I don't know. I know very little about historical polynesian. :)
I'm quite out of the loop, too. A lot of work has been done just within the PN languages that I haven't followed. That's relatively easy. But it can be difficult to align PN words with western (Indonesian/PI area) cognates because of all the mergers/losses that PN has undergone. Example: _Zero_ in Haw. might reflect AN *s, c, j, ns, nc, nj, d1, d2, nd1, nd2, R, q, h that I can recall right nd.........:-( Then there's also the problem of semantic drift; thus, my alignment of Haw. ta: with AN *taqan might be considered way out in left field by real PNists.


Pablo David Flores <pablo-flores@...>frozen? was: Re: [CHAT] (Hawaiian) Words for "boredom"