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Re: Comparison of adjectives (was Re: Reviving an old tradition)

From:Sally Caves <scaves@...>
Date:Tuesday, April 25, 2006, 23:30
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Quijada" <jq_ithkuil@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: Comparison of adjectives (was Re: Reviving an old tradition)


> In designing the revision to Ithkuil (called Ilaksh), I have expanded the > morphology of comaratives significantly, based on my discovery of how > complicated and semantically ambiguous comparatives really are in natural > languages, as illustrated in an ambiguous sentence like "She is > healthier." > Consider how many meanings this can have: > > She is healthier [than she was previously, but she is still ill.]
Teonaht: Sonent mim ly. "Healthy some she."
> She is healthier [then anyone else here]
Teonaht (possibly): Ta sonent ly. "How healthy she."
> She is healthier [and so is now healthy whereas previously she was not]
Teonaht: Sonent mal ly. "Healthy now she."
> She is healthier [she was healthy before and is now even more so]
Hmmm. Ya got me. Probably: Makssonent ly. "More healthy she." So Teonaht has to do it with modifiers.
> Another example: > > He sings better. ( = than he did before because he recovered from a cold, > even though he still doesn't sing very well.)
This is harder, because it involves a comparative. But I'll try. It seems to follow the same paradigms with some inversion of syntax. Teonaht: Mim makavent mal lohhtindro. "Some better now he sings."
> He sings better. ( = than his friend does, even though neither one sings > very well)
Clueless. Ta Tebnar mim makavent lohhtindro. "Than Tebnar some better he sings."
> He sings better. ( = than he did before because he's taken voice lessons > and > now sings well, whereas before he sang terribly)
Mal makavent lohhtindro. "Now better he sings."
> He sings better ( = has improved through voice lessons and now sings very > well, even though he sang fairly well before).
Mal imbe makavent lohhtindro. "Now yet better he sings."
> Thus we see that the simple 3-way comparison of X, X-er, and X-est (or > 4-way > if you add in the equative form "A is as X as B") must cover a range of at > least half a dozen or more semantic interpretations.
All this reminds me a little of the "modal particles" in German, where you express nuances of meaning through words like "aber," "ja," "doch," etc. That's the only way Teonaht can do it.
> There is also a semantic division between absolute value of a quality > (i.e., > the statement is true regardless of one's knowledge or contextal point of > view) versus relative value of a quality (i.e., the truthfulness of the > statement depends on the context or point of view:
Again, the following would require modifiers.
> SENTENCES WITHIN CONTEXT OF ABSOLUTE BRIGHTNESS > > Light A is bright.
Fel li lyreb A.
> Light B is brighter. ( = than A)
Ailly, Teonaht would have to say "ta A makafel lyreb B." I'm a goner.
> Light B is brighter. ( = than it used to be, even though it's less bright > than A)
:(
> Light B is brightest. ( = compared to A and B)
Hseffel lyreb B. The context would have to supply the rest, I'm afraid. What you have below is impressive. I think my language experiments have to stick to metaphors. Sally
> Light B is (at its) brightest. ( = at its maximum degree of brightness, > even though it's less bright than A) > > Light B is (at its) brightest. ( = that it can be, even though it's less > bright than B, but brighter than A). > > > ABSOLUTE VS. RELATIVE BRIGHTNESS > > Acturus is a bright star. (ABSOLUTE = null due to standard benchmark of > scale not defined. RELATIVE = true.) > > Alpha Centauri is a brighter star (than Arcturus). (ABSOLUTE = false; > RELATIVE = true) > > Alpha Centauri is a brighter star (than it used to be). (ABSOLUTE = > false? > RELATIVE = depends on context, e.g., to me it's brighter than it was last > month because I just had cataract-removal surgery = true, however, it's > brighter than it was last month because I contend it is so = false) > > Sirius is the brightest star (of all). (ABSOLUTE = false; RELATIVE = > depends on viewpoint, e.g., if looking from Earth = TRUE; however, looking > from a point in space other than Earth = depends = no way to assert truth > or > falsity of this statement by itself without providing exact viewpoint > coordinates = does this mean this sentence should be considered > ungrammatical or cognitively insufficient in a logical language?) > > The Sun is the brightest star (of all). (ABSOLUTE = false, RELATIVE = > [same > as above sentence] ) > > Sirius is the brightest star (compared to Arcturus and Alpha Centauri). > (ABSOLUTE = true, RELATIVE = true) > > The Sun is the brightest star (compared to Arcturus, Alpha Centauri and > Sirius). (ABSOLUTE = false, RELATIVE = true) > > As a result of all this, Ilaksh has 18 different comparative schemas (nine > relative and nine absolute), which I call Levels. These Levels describe > the > comparative state of noun/adjective/verb A which in turn operate in > conjunction with 24 new noun cases to specify the exact status of the > "other" referent B (as in a sentence A is X'er than B, or A X's more than > B, > or A is more X than B). >