Re: THEORY: Relation between counting, trial, and plural

Eric Christopherson wrote:
> On Aug 28, 2007, at 12:32 AM, Eric Christopherson wrote:
[snip]
> Ah, I remembered it! Actually, in the case I was thinking of, the  bare
> plural seems to refer to two, not three. Revelation 12:14 has "a  time,
> and *times*, and half a time" (emphasis added), which Wikipedia  (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_%28archangel%29 ) says means
> "three and a half years". I.e. "times" without a specific number is
> taken to mean "two times". I'm no Biblical scholar, so I don't know  how
> reasonable that is -- and it occurs to me that maybe the original  Greek
> used the dual instead of the plural.
No - the Greek has the plural: kairòn kaì kairoùs [acc. pl.] kaì
héemisou kairoû

It's a reference to the Septuagint version of Daniel, 7:25 (where the
words are genitive, not accusative as in Revelation): kairoû kaì kairôn
[gen. pl.] kaí ge héemisu kairoû.

The Daniel passage is generally understood to refer to Antiochus
Epiphanes' persecution of the Jews, which lasted approximately three and
a half years.

It simply is *not* the case that "times" in Greek without a specific
number is taken to mean "two times." Arguing any linguistic point from
Revelation is unsound because:
- apocalyptic literature (e.g. Revelation & Daniel) tends to use 'coded
phrases' (apocalyptic literature tends to be written during times of
persecution).
- the Greek of Revelation is full of grammatical irregularities; it was
clearly not written by a L1 Greek speaker!
- a significant part of Revelation draws from OT imagery, especially
from Daniel & Ezekiel.

In this case, we have a clear reference to a phrase in Daniel so, if we
are looking for the original we should be looking, not at Greek, but at
the original Hebrew (or Aramaic) of Daniel. Has the Septuagint
mistranslated a Hebrew dual? Somehow, I doubt it. It is surely a coded
reference to the time of persecution under Antiochus Epiphanes. So the
Revelation passage is to tell its readers that the period of persecution
is limited. It tells us nothing, I'm afraid, about the use of plurals in
Greek.


--
Ray
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http://www.carolandray.plus.com
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Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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