Re: HELP--Quick Transitivity Questions

At 10:15 am +0200 11/4/02, Christophe Grandsire wrote:
>En réponse à Jim Grossmann <steven@...>:
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> In my language, there are no reflexive or reciprocal pronouns;  verbs
>> are
>> made reflexive or reciprocal by a clause initial particle.
>>
>> In such clauses, are the verbs intransitive by virtue of their having
>> no
>> object in that clause, or transitive by virtue of the fact that, with
>> the
>> same meaning, they can take objects in other clauses?
>>
>
>Well, it depends on the analysis you make, but to me, making a verb reflexive
>or reciprocal by adding a particle looks suspiciously like voice marking :)) .
It looks to me the same way also.  The initial clause particle is surely
making the verb correspond (more or less) to the ancient Greek "middle
voice", which could also have reflexive or reciprocal meaning.

Whether the resultant voice is actually intransitive or not will depend up
the language.  For example, the Greek middle voice could take a direct
object rather in the same way that a reflexive verb in the modern Romance
languages can take a direct object, cf:
je me lave = I wash
je me lave les mains = I wash my hands

In the former traditionally we'd analyze "se" as the direct object of
"lave", in the latter we'd analyze it as the indirect object.  The middle
voice behaved in much the same way in ancient Greek.

[snap]
>
>> In English, are passivized verbs intransitive?
>>
>
>They cannot take a direct object, so yes, they are intransitive :)) .
Mais non, mon ami!
Some passive verbs in English _can_ (and often do) take a direct object, e.g.
"He was given the award yesterday."

Whether a non-active 'voice' is not per_se transitive or intransitive; it
depends upon the language (and, of course, by no means all active forms are
transitive).

To sum up, as I see it:
1. I agree with Christophe that Jim's particle is 'voice marking', in this
case marking it as "middle voice".
2. But that does not automatically make the verb transitive or
intransitive; that depends upon how the middle (or, indeed, passive) voice
behaves in your language.

Ray.

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