Re: Genders (was Re: Láadan and woman's speak_

Nik Taylor wrote:
>
> Robert Hailman wrote:
> > Right, but since there is a factor of chance involved, since we don't
> > know exactly what inspires a language to develop gender, or lose it,
> > what are the odds a language would lose one gender system and gain
> > another?
>
> Very high, but why do you keep insisting on having lost one earlier?
> Given enough time, I would suspect that the evolution of a gender system
> is virtually inevitable.
>
You said it right there, with the inevitability of a gender system.
Since a civilization that is very technically advanced would likely be
very old, the language would probably be even older than that, and
during that time the language probably would have had some sort of
gender that had later been lost. The techno-gender could very well be
the first one, though, but that would suggest a younger language to me,
perhaps one too young to belong to a technologically advanced
civilization.

> > It's always possible, but what I want to know is whether it's likely or
> > not. I've never doubted whether such a system could form, I'm just
> > saying that it's improbable and if a language had a gender system like
> > that, I'd be more inclined to think it was consiously added by
> > someone...
>
> Well, it's impossible to know - there's never been a society in such a
> state!  But I've seen the most bizarre gender systems, things like
> "long, narrow objects", or "non-flesh food".
>
Any gender system is possible, for sure, but how common are these
systems? If you checked one language at random, it would probably have a
more Indo-European-like gender system, I'd imagine.

> Besides, I think what's really implausible is a conscious engineering of
> a natural language like that, or an artificial language being adopted as
> a mother tongue, especially if a common language already existed.  It
> would be more reasonable to suppose that those genders evolved naturally
> then that someone put them in there.
>
It depends on the civilization that engineered it. I'm thinking:
Technologically advanced civilization begins to expand rapildy. Conquers
areas that don't speak the language. Unable to integrate conquered areas
into official language. No common language evolves, so the government
decides to make one for government purposes, such as regional branches
of government in areas with a non-official language majority. Soon the
language is taught in schools. When a generation of people bilinguial in
whatever language and this new language begin to run businesses and
travel about the country, they find it is easier to communicate with
business parters and local people in places they travel to, and begin to
use it at home, since everyone there knows it as well. The next
generation is brought up in a world where this new language is common
place, and learn it. Eventually it becomes more common as a first
language than the original regional languages. After a long time, the
regional languages are lost. Bingo! Auxlang as a monther tounge.  Of
course, this requires incredible government backing of the new language.
Also, it could take a long time between creation of language and the
teaching of it in school.

And that's just one way it could happen.

Of course, if one common language existed, the genders would have
evolved naturally more likely then them being shoved into an established
language.

--
Robert