Re: Genders (was Re: Láadan and woman's speak_

Nik Taylor wrote:
>
> Robert Hailman wrote:
> > during that time the language probably would have had some sort of
> > gender that had later been lost. The techno-gender could very well be
> > the first one, though, but that would suggest a younger language to me,
> > perhaps one too young to belong to a technologically advanced
> > civilization.
>
> Well, sure, in the distant past there might've been a gender system, but
> you were talking about another system existing at the same time this
> techno-gender was evolving.
To me, both of them could, but not neccesarily would, exist at the same
time. I've described the process by which that could happen earlier.
Really, anything is possible when it comes to conlangs.

>
> > Any gender system is possible, for sure, but how common are these
> > systems? If you checked one language at random, it would probably have a
> > more Indo-European-like gender system, I'd imagine.
>
> Yeah, most languages use something like animate/inanimate or
> human/nonhuman, or male/female/inanimate.  I think that
> animate/inanimate is most common.  But there's no need to make your
> language average!  If it's possible, why not put it in?
>
Your absolutely right, the best part of conlanging aren't the average
and common ideas people put into their languages, it's the things that
are new and interesting, that set one conlang apart from the others.

> > It depends on the civilization that engineered it. I'm thinking:
> > Technologically advanced civilization begins to expand rapildy. Conquers
> > areas that don't speak the language. Unable to integrate conquered areas
> > into official language.
>
> Unlikely.  Those areas would, depending on the civilization, either be
> forced to abandon their language, or those languages would be used
> alongside their own language, and quite probably, eventually the more
> advanced culture's language would dominate.  Conquerors rarely make
> linguistic concessions, the few cases where they do (like the Normans
> invading England), the conquerors were few in number, and at
> approximately the same technological language.
>
What if the conquering nation is run by linguists who are facinated by
the native language? :o) They'd actually probably want to study it and
nurture it, though.

> > Of course, this requires incredible government backing of the new language.
>
> Probably virtually tyrannical "backing", in other words, *forcing* it on
> the people.  But the notion is implausible.  There'd be no advantage to
> this auxlang that wouldn't exist for the dominant civilization's
> language.  MAYBE, if there were several equally advanced civilizations
> that merged, an auxlang might be accepted, but more likely one would
> dominate after a lengthy period of polylingualism.
>
Right, right, right. Maybe an evil tyrannical government run by a leader
who's ashamed of his nation's past and wants to have as little to do
with it as possible, and therefore institutes language reform forcing an
auxlang on the people.

> However, say a colony was established by an international group, and
> they chose an auxlang for their colony.  Furthermore, suppose that this
> colony develops into a powerful civilization, and eventually dominates
> their parents.  I'm thinking, of course, of the way that English
> developed from a minor language into the dominant language of Earth, due
> in part to the socioeconomic dominance of the United States.
>
That's also always very possible, and I like the idea. An international
group certainly wouldn't want to support one of its member's language
over the others, unless it was already the lingua franca where they were
coming from.

> ObConlang: That's how Selenese became the dominant language of the Solar
> System and later the Democratic Union of Worlds.  Selenese was a creole
> that evolved in Armstrong City, an American colony that was passed back
> and forth between the major terrestrial powers, each time gaining a
> different group of colonists speaking another language, all these
> languages evolved into Armstrong City Creole, which, after independence,
> also was spread to the other cities in the Armstrong City League (most
> of which also had creoles as the ordinary speech).  Armstrong City
> Creole was also influenced by the creoles and languages of these other
> cities, and was standardized shortly after independence by the Language
> Board of Armstrong City, and named Selenese, but popularly called Lunago
> (from Luna + Japanese go, language).  The Armstrong City League became
> the dominant nation on Luna, founding new cities of their own, and
> becoming the dominant power in the Solar System.  Until the Plagues,
> Selenese never made much headway on Earth, tho, they kept using World
> English as a lingua franca.
I'm impressed. I just don't have the time to put into a detailed history
like that.

Of course, I don't much care for English, even though I was born and
raised speaking it. I really would rather have just about any other
language become the lingua franca on Earth. Is anyone up for some Latin?

--
Robert