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Cross-phonology, was: New to the list

From:Vasiliy Chernov <bc_@...>
Date:Sunday, June 18, 2000, 11:51
<Sorry if you receive this twice. I used another machine, and it seems
something went wrong with the firts message, but maybe I'm wrong. And
I thought it is perhaps worth starting a new thread>

On Fri, 16 Jun 2000 22:56:30 +0200, Christophe Grandsire
<Christophe.Grandsire@...> wrote:

>At 10:55 16/06/00 -0400, you wrote: >> >>Basilius, >>who has never been sure how his name is spelled in Esperanto... >> > >Well, if you take the latinised version, it would certainly be esperantized >as Basilio /basi'lio/.
Or Basiljo? or Baziljo?
>As for the Russian version (I guess Vasiliy Chernov >is pronounced something like /vasjiljij tSernof/, tell me if I'm wrong, as >I have only a very very basic knowledge of Russian phonology), it would >certainly be semi-esperantized as Vasilij Cxernov (x-convention for the >c-circonflex).
Well, to begin with, the first (atonic) vowel in Vasilij is something like the vowel in English _cut_. For Russian it is natural to identify it with [a], but how can I be sure about a different language? Next, the palatalized [s'] and [l']. Both stand before [i], so I cannot figure out if they will be perceived as [sj], [lj] or simply [s], [l]. Finally, is the tautosyllabic [ij] allowed? That's not obvious. And if it is, does this mean that English _fee_ (or, say, German _Vieh_) will be perceived as [fij] (as it happens e. g. in Bulgarian)? Still worse with my surname: the [t_S'] is palatalized, and an unstressed /e/ between a palatalized and non-palatalized (that is, in fact, quite utterly *velarized*) consonants becomes a rather complex diphthongoid, something like quick gliding from [i] to [e] to [@] or even [8] (all very narrow). Besides, [t_S'], like all Russian shuffling sounds, tends to be slightly labialized. So it wouldn't be much wonder if a person suited to a different phonology transcribed my surname as e. g. _Cxjurnof'_ ... Indeed, I don't intend to criticize Esperanto as such. Actually, I think it could be a nice *artlang* ;) . Rather, I wonder about the lack of inter-phonological concerns with what is intended to be *international* langs. And that all transcription rules are so oriented to graphics rather than to potential colloquial borrowings. I have the feeling that many artlangers intuitively understand their invented phonologies better. But I don't remember anybody to discuss cross-linguistic phonologies e. g. of a multinational conworld, with languages borrowing words from each other. Am I wrong? Basilius