(one copy for the List, one copy for Sally) Re: Language and "mysticism," whatever that is.

On Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:33:36 -0700 Sally Caves <scaves@...>
writes:
> Vyko, Conlangers!  I've taken a long long holiday (which
> essentially amounts to doing my dayjob at the university).
> I hope you haven't forgotten Teonaht!
-

Hi!  Welcome back!  Yay!

> 1)  How many of you old- and new-comers started inventing a language
> in isolation from the list?
>         1a)  If so, how old were you?
-

I was in 9th grade (first year of highschool), so around 14 or 15.

>         1b)  Was it a project with friends or a solitary project?
-

It was a project with my brother.

>         1b)  Did your invented language have some kind of private
> purpose? esoteric?  erotic? religious or mystical?
-

Before discovering conlanging, we were in the habit of creating codes, so
i seem to remember it originally being a "better code" - a secret
language.

>                 Since the topic of my panel is "the language of
> mysticism," I'm especially interested in this last.
-

Naaa... ool-Nuziiferoi (that conlang) only survived a few months before
being abandoned, and none of my other conlangs have been for specificly
real-life mystical purposes.

> 3)  How many of you, when you were starting out on this on your own,
> did this kind of thing:  you have a list of words you want to invent
> new ones for, so you drew di-and polysyllabic words out of the air.
> This is
> what I did when I was new at this and a teenager.  Many of these
> still
> remain vocabulary words in Teonaht, but I've since then learned to
> build up through word roots.
-

For ool-Nuziiferoi me and my brother did this, although it was slightly
more complicated since each verbal root had to have a CVCVC pattern (with
diphthongs classified as V).  For Rokbeigalmki, my major conlang, i
started out this way, although the words (even if not directly borrowed
or modeled) showed an influence from natural languages that i know.  For
Gabwe, (the language i invented for reciting spells in my Live Action
Role Playing group) most of the words are based directly off of words in
natlangs - since i'm not creating it for it's artistic merits, but for
use, it's easier to base words on things that i associate with the
concept.

> 4)  If so, how important was it that the new word sound "exotic,"
> "beautiful," or
> "suggestive" in some personal way of the word you wanted it to stand
> for?
-

Very important - for instance, the ool-Nuziiferoi word for "pour" was
_bobuht_ /bobVt/, based in the sound of liquid pouring out of a bottle.
In Rokbeigalmki, it takes so long for me to create words because i don't
want to set them down until they sound just right.

> 5)  How many of you invented words to express concepts that could
> not be
> expressed in your native language?
-

I did.

> 6)  How many of you used it for prayer?  For secrecy?
-

ool-Nuziiferoi was inveted as a secret language, but never grew useful
enough to actually be used.  I have translated short prayers and
religious songs into Rokbeigalmki, but i've never actually prayed in it.

> 7)  For how many of you was it an intellectual exercise?
-

All creation is an intellectual exercise, although it's more than just
that.

> 8)  A language for a conculture?
-

Rokbeigalmki (for my MUSH character).
Judajca (for an alternate history).
Gabwe (for a culture in my LARP group).
Mother Language, which only exists as two phrases in an unfinished short
story i wrote in 10th grade, was based in a conculture as well.  So
pretty much all of my conlangs except ool-Nuziiferoi have been based on,
or associated with, concultures.

> 10)  What is your definition of a mystical language?  Would any of
> you characterize your conlang as such?
-

I would define as "mystical language" as a language used not just for
religious or spiritual uses such as prayer or study, but also for trying
to relate to the Transcendent - whether used to create terms that can
describe such things, or used to try and effect them.

-Stephen (Steg)
 "do not separate yourself from the community;
  and do not believe in yourself until the day of your death;
  and do not judge your friend until you have reached their place;
  and do not say something that cannot be heard, for it will be;
  and do not say 'when i have free time i'll learn,'
     for you may never have free time."
          ~ Hileil

> Yry poy poy firrimby, talk to you soon!
> Sally Caves
> Niffodyr tweluenrem lis teuim an.
> "The gods have retractible claws."
>                                 from _The Gospel of Bastet_
> ============================================================
-

PS:  Yay!  i love that quote!  :-)