Is there any derivatives of Heinlein's "gulf" language speedtalk?
|From:||Joseph B. <darkmoonman@...>|
|Date:||Sunday, July 10, 2005, 2:55|
>> When has this group ever demanded practicality? IMO,
>> such a demand would jettison half the conlangs ever
>> mentioned here.
> Half? I would guess that most folk one meets
> day by day would probably say 'all'. How many
I was trying to be kind and inoffensive. :-)
And most of the folks I meet don't know what a conlang is.
> of the conlangs discussed here are actually practical
> pursuits? Is not part of the attraction of conlanging
> experimentation and testing the unknown?
For me it is, but I can't speak for others. My interest in conlanging began
and continues to be in playing with the edges of communication.
> However, most speedtalk proponents intend to put their
> systems to actual use in the real world, so practicality
> *is* a concern.
As part of an auxlang list, maybe. I've seen more than one conlang aimed at
an alien who sees, hears, or perceives differently from humans.
Mea cupla. I keep thinking we're discussing "speedtalk" as a idea (e.g. the
posted refs to Ithkuil), not "Speedtalk" as an language. My L1
differentiates some meanings by the case of a word's initial letter.
> And on the other hand, even fictional languages are usually
> imagined by their inventors to be actually used by some sort
> of (fictional) people, so practicality matters in that trade as
> well, in some way.
Perhaps only if the fictional speakers are limited to being Homo sapiens
sapiens. Heinlein's Speedtalk is limited to humans, but speedtalk needn't
be. (see my prior paragraph).
Having said that, I myself tend to pick phonemes which I can pronounce, but
I don't have to - it's not hard to conceive of a sentient being very
different from humans: e.g. Lovecraft's Elder Things with 5 mouths, a 5
lobed brain, requiring humans to use a telepathically linked quintet for
vocal communication with an Elder Thing; or Fith, which was designed for a
race with multiple spiracles and whose minds use (infinite?) push/pop stacks
to process language. I've never mentioned it, but my Bez Dis'z is actually
an "auxlang" for the Bez who resemble 3-lobed starfish and who use it in
communicating with sentients which suffer the handicap of being forced to
communicate via vibrations.
> If someone presents a fictional language with e.g. 850 phonemes, 385
> noun cases, 117 verb aspects etc., this will invite the question,
> "How do the speakers of your language cope with the language's
> complexity?" That's what I mean.
I apologise. I took your "practical" to be rejecting the idea out of hand.
A corollary question (which may have been asked and the answer to which I
missed), is: How many phonemes can the brightest of human's be taught to
aurally differentiate and orally generate accurately?
>> Personally, speedtalk sounds like a good personal
>> exercise, and therein may lie its worth.
Brings up another question: I have a scant bookish knowledge of Lojban. Are
their any people who use it vocally and spontaneously?