Re: Stative passive

Carsten Becker <post@...> wrote:

> A second question: In German, we've got
> a "Vorgangspassiv" (actional/active?! passive) and
> a "Zustandspassiv" (stative passive). That's the difference
> between "The door is closed" (done by somebody) and
> "The door is closed" (state of being). Is it really necessary
> to think about this in conlanging or is one passive enough
> to express both.
>
If you want your lang to be easily comprehensible, I'd suggest you use both. I'd
paraphrase them as:

The door is closed
= The door is caused to become closed
is caused to become closed = causative passive construction(!)

The door is closed
is closed = stative verb; 'closed' IS (and I must stress this) NOT an adjective!
This is a verb, a stative verb; English just uses the copula, and it confuses
oneself! You should consider 'is closed' as one whole, not to ever be divided -
that's against the law, to me (:) )!

> And what about "The soup cooks"? It does not cook itself,
> and it is not cooked by anyone, it just cooks.
>
That's right, and it's called a middle voice. Some languages use an antipassive
voice: 'I cook (something)', where the object is demoted (= 'made less
important') than the subject, so you just say I cooked [...], and whatever you
cooked is the missing patient, and is known from context. (Don't confuse it
with the habitual aspect - 'I cook my dinner every evening at 6:00'.)

The antipassive example isn't a middle voice construction, of course - compare
'I'm baking' (= 'It's so hot out here!/This weather is so hot!') with 'I cook
(something)'.

> Because I'm working on a trigger language at the moment
> [snip]
Good for you - so am I!!

> There wouldn't be an agent here, right? There is no cook,
> or is "the soup" the agent and a patient is missing?
>
No, 'soup' is the patient - or the experiencer (choose whatever term you like :)).
The soup is undergoing the cooking, not he/she who is cooking the soup.

> I've found a Tagalog grammar on the web
> [snip]
>
Where??? Please give me the URL!!! :)

--Robert