Re: Futurese

Javier wrote:
> >>Well, sorry, I guess I should have offered an ASCII-IPA
> >>equivalent for each phoneme, so as to avoid misunderstandings
> >>such as this.
> >
> >You should have.
>
>I'll do now:
>
>a /a/
>b /b/
>c /S/
>d /d/
>e /E/
>f /f/
>g /g/
>h /h/
>i /i/
>j /j/
>k /k/
>l /l/
>m /m/
>n /n/
>o /O/
>p /p/
>q /N/
>r /r/
>s /s/
>t /t/
>u /u/
>v /v/
>w /w/
>x /Z/
>y /@/
>z /z/
>
Thanks.

[snip]
> >I've never denied I hate English orthography. I don't now much of
>Albanian
> >orthography, but the use of |x| and |xh| is at the very least quite
> >counterintuitive for people used to more mainstream uses of the Latin
> >alphabet. If I'm correct in assuming you chose said script because it's
>the
> >most well-known in the world, one'd expect you to use as "normal" values
>of
> >the letters as possible to maximize this advantage.
>
>Yes, but some roman letters (especially c, j, x and y) do not
>have a "normal" value strongly associated with them but are
>used for very different sounds in the different languages in
>which they're used. E.g. to us, Spanish speakers, the "normal"
>value of letter j is /X/.
Oughtn't that be (lower-case) /x/? /X/ ought to indicate uvular phoneme, and
I don't see how introducing uvulars help analyzing Spanish (then, I know an
Argentine who apparently has [h] and [C] in free variation - who said
English was insane?).

Still, chosing a value for |x| etc that occurs in languages more well-known
than Albanian would be helpful for most potential speakers. One might also
question your choice |q|=/N/ - it'll be a freakingly small proportion of the
potential speakers that'll guess that.
>
>
> >[snip]
> >> > except I'd still hate |x| to indicate anything voiced.
> >>
> >>I'm waiting for undefeatable arguments against the use
> >>of letter x for something voiced; I mean, other than your
> >>personal taste which is of course totally irrelevant.
> >
> >The "IMHO" rather suggests a personal opinion, doesn't it?
> >
> >Still, using |x| for something as odd as [Z] does work against the point
>of
> >using a well-known alphabet.
>
>I don't see using <x> for /Z/ that odd. <x> is already in
>use for very closely related sounds to that (/S/, /dz/ and
>/dZ/).
Apart from /S/, to my knowledge only in real marginal languages.
>
>
> >One possible rejuggle would be |x|=/S/, |j|=/Z/, |y|=/j/ and |ë|=/@/ (|ë|
>is
> >e-diaeresis, in case the mailer mangles it). Would feel rather less
>exotic
> >to me, at least.
>
>And do you consider that that option, introducing a
>cumbersome diacritic and leaving letter c sillily unused,
>really makes a better use of the roman script than mine?
Well, it depends on what you mean by making good use of the Latin alphabet.
If you mean using it as efficiently and elegantly as possible, then
obviously no. If you mean to maximize the advantage of using a well-known
script, then I think yes.
>
>
> >> >It's quite obvious you'ven't tried to achieve a maximally universal
>set
> >>of
> >> >contrastive sounds, but are real sure your IAL ought to distinguish
> >>'tween
> >> >/l/ and /r/? And exactly what kind of "r" are we speaking about? From
> >>your
> >> >chart above I'd have to guess it's a dental trill.
> >>
> >>Well, I've already posted in several other places very
> >>extensive and detailed arguments to support the choice of
> >>phonemes, which by no means is arbitrary. If you want I'll
> >>paste those explanations here.
> >
> >Well, I don't suspect you of picking phonemes arbitrarily; I'm just
>curious
> >as to the justification for including these two.
>
>Yes, I expected the l/r opposition to be questioned here.
>But why hasn't anybody so far complained about the b/v
>one? When I posted it to a Spanish-language list, the l/r
>"problem" wasn't even mentioned in the replies while the
>b/v one was ubiquitous.
Could this be due to the simple fact the failure to distinguish /b/~/v/ is
quite rare compared to the failure to distinguish /r/~/l/, but nonetheless
occurs in Spanish?

                                                       Andreas

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