Re: French u [y] and ou [u] allophones? (was Re: anti-Sanskritism and more)

Quoting Jean-François Colson <bn130627@...>:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andreas Johansson" <andjo@...>
> To: <CONLANG@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:33 PM
> Subject: Re: French u [y] and ou [u] allophones? (was Re: anti-Sanskritism
> and more)
>
>
> > Quoting Jean-François Colson <bn130627@...>:
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Jung" <RobertMJung@...>
> > > To: <CONLANG@...>
> > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 2:20 AM
> > > Subject: anti-Sanskritism and more
> > >
> > > >
> > > >    Are the French u [y] and ou [u] allophones of a single phoneme?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Surely not. There are many words for which a swich from [y] to [u]
> changes
> > > the meaning.
> > >
> > > For example:
> > > - bulle /byl/ (bubble) - boule /bul/ (ball, bowl)
> > > - cul /ky/ (ass) - cou /ku/ (neck)
> > > - sur /sy:R/ (sour) - sourd /su:R/ (deaf)
> > > - du /dy/ (from/of the) - d'où /du/ (from where), doux /du/ (sweet)
> > > - pur /py:R/ (pure) - pour /pu:R/ (for)
> > > - la mûre /lamy:R/ (the mulberry/blackberry/brambleberry/dewberry) -
> l'amour
> > > /lamu:R/ (love)
> > > - and many others.
> >
> > French has phonemic vocalic length?
> >
> >                                                      Andreas
> >
>
> No. But the vowels are (phonetically) longer in some contexts. And I think
> (perhaps I'm wrong) that the /y/ of |sur| is longer for the adjective use (=
> sour) than for the prepositional one (= on).
>
> Notice that some dictionaries write explicitally the long vowels in the
> transcriptions.
You no doubt know this, but you really should not indicate subphonemic
lengthening within slashes - it's asking to be misunderstood.

                                                          Andreas