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Re: USAGE: writ [was Re: Here, *Here*, and There, *Ther

From:Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Saturday, July 6, 2002, 19:07
On Friday, July 5, 2002, at 11:12 , agricola wrote:

> Ray Brown wrote: >>> I don't mean a vl. [w]. At least, I'm quite sure I don 't. > >> But that is what [w_0] is. > > So, [hw] = [w_0]? If I can ever find my IPA cd, I'll have to pay > attention to how they say this. The term "voiceless w" doesn't sit well. > Mostly because it's not really vl.
There is a IPA symbol for "voiceless w": an inverted lower case w. My IPA chart describes it as a voiceless labio-velar fricative. On checking X-SAMPA, I find the X-SAMPA symbol is actually upper case W. Indeed, [w_0] is more properly IPA lower case {w} with the small 'devoicing' circle beneath it, i.e. the sound in _twit_ [t_hw_0It].
>>> How do you pronounce it? > >> [w_0] :) > > Cheeky monkey!
Sorry - and I was strictly incorrect; I should've said [W].
>> In the registers where I would make a distinction between _which_ >and >> _witch_ the former is voiceless [w]. > >>> My [hw] is like my [kw] except that there is an [h] in stead of a >>[k] >>> . I hope that makes some sense. > >> It certainly does. That's how I'm sure my Saxon ancestors >pronounced >> it and why they wrote it as {hw} - and > > Certanly makes more sense than <wh>. But at least it's still > differentiated from <w>!
Yes, in the same way Old English {hr} was different from {r}, {hn} was different from {n}; but I'm sure {hw}, {hr} and {hn} were each combos of _two_ sounds in the same way that Old English {cw} , {cr} and {cn} were.
> >> not the silly Norman {wh}; and the sound combo still survives this side >> of the pond (or did till recently) in parts of Scotland. (Are you sure >> you're not a crypto-Shetlander? ;) >>
The sound I was referring to above is the distinct [hw] (two consonants), not the single [W] which is still heard in Scotland and some northern English dialects and, I understand, is still widely used in America. Ray.