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Re: Bunty.

From:Lars Finsen <lars.finsen@...>
Date:Friday, June 20, 2008, 13:24
And Rosta wrote:
> quoting me: >> >> I have a question for experts in English language history. If Old >> English had acquired a loan-word /bunty/, what should we expect as >> the outcome in later English? Bounty /baunti/? >> I am thinking of Bunty as an old name for my conworld, from >> Suraetua bun = copper + ty = land. If a land north of Scotland >> later were known as Bountyland, it might attract a lot of >> immigration, I guess. > > Are you simply trying to find out what the modern outcome of an OE > _bunty_ wd be,
Yes.
> or are you trying to find out what OE form cd have given ModE > _bounty_, perhaps with the idea that the common noun _bounty_ does > not in fact come, via French, from Latin _bonitas_?
No.
> Maybe _bounty_ truly did come from _bonitas_, and it influenced > _Bounty(land)_ by a kind of folk-etymology, if _Bountyland_ is > reputed to be a land of plenty or of rich ores?
Actually it's not a bad idea, the thought of a folk-etymology, because there are rich ores in the land. Fertile soil as well. So, although the regular outcome would be different, it would become Bountyland though folk-etymology. Maybe a different origin than Bunty should be considered, too. After all, this is a form that is a 1000 years old by the time the Anglo- Saxons arrive in Britain, and things could have happened to it by then. Anyway, what I'm really after is a name for the province that was shed to the Scottish king in the 13th century. I've used a name before that I'm unhappy with, but I want to keep its initial letter, which happens to be b, because it's so ingrained in various documents I have. So Bunty seemed to be a good candidate. Since it's so old, it would have been known to the Britons. Severe changes happen to the Brittonic language from the time of the AS conquests, and the modern Welsh name for the county will be Fint if I have understood Jackson correctly. (Assuming the u really is long. If it's short, it will be Fwnt, which I rather like, BTW.) Anglo-Saxon could have borrowed the word from the Britons before this metamorphosis, in which case it would suffer the later i-umlauting and become a modern Bint. Or they could have borrowed it later and call it Fint or Funt, depending on the length of the original u. However, since the Norse were the first to settle there, I will allow them to name the province. Assuming that the name was known to them as well from an early date, I think they would interpret it as an I- stem BuntiR in Proto-Norse, and it seems to me it will become Bynt in Old Norse, whether the vowel is long or short (Býnt if it's long). Probably by then, they will have appended -land, and called the province Byntarland, with a regular fem. i-stem genitive. Now, if this were borrowed into English, we would probably get y>i parallel to other ON loans, and possibly eventually the genitive ending would be lost altogether, giving a modern Bintland. Have I done some big blunders along all this, or are you with me? The name Uriania is in fact taken from classical literature (in my conworld, that is). It was popularised by the Bintlanders during their struggle for independence in the 19th and 20th centuries and adopted for the whole country when the republic was united in 1934. In fact, the modern Urianian reflect of the name is Erin (believe it or not). Uria, the name of the university town, also is a modern coinage based on the classical name of the country. This Erin reminds me of another Irish connection that I believe I've mentioned here before. The northern coastal town of Jurian, one of the very first names I made up in my conworld, gave me a big shock when it turned out to be the modern Urianian reflect of the ancient name for Ireland, assuming the Old Urianians had borrowed it as Iwerjonos. Maybe some Irishmen had settled there, or maybe it had trade connections with the country, or maybe the Urianians, people of Erin, felt some kind of brotherhood with the other people of Erin and named a town after them - who knows? Most dictionaries around the world will have Uriania as the dictionary entry for the country, including the Scandinavian and English ones. But of course, the Welsh dictionary will have Fwnt. (I think I will go for that, and a short u in Bunty.) Now I've done a lot of conworlding today. Freelancer's privilege. But I better start getting some work done to meet my deadlines. See you around. LEF

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Peter Collier <petecollier@...>