Re: Bunty.

And Rosta wrote:
> quoting me:
>>
>> I have a question for experts in English language history. If Old
>> English had acquired a loan-word /bunty/, what should we expect as
>> the outcome in later English? Bounty /baunti/?
>> I am thinking of Bunty as an old name for my conworld, from
>> Suraetua bun = copper + ty = land. If a land north of Scotland
>> later were known as Bountyland, it might attract a lot of
>> immigration, I guess.
>
> Are you simply trying to find out what the modern outcome of an OE
> _bunty_ wd be,
Yes.

> or are you trying to find out what OE form cd have given ModE
> _bounty_, perhaps with the idea that the common noun _bounty_ does
> not in fact come, via French, from Latin _bonitas_?
No.

> Maybe _bounty_ truly did come from _bonitas_, and it influenced
> _Bounty(land)_ by a kind of folk-etymology, if _Bountyland_ is
> reputed to be a land of plenty or of rich ores?
Actually it's not a bad idea, the thought of a folk-etymology,
because there are rich ores in the land. Fertile soil as well. So,
although the regular outcome would be different, it would become
Bountyland though folk-etymology.

Maybe a different origin than Bunty should be considered, too. After
all, this is a form that is a 1000 years old by the time the Anglo-
Saxons arrive in Britain, and things could have happened to it by then.

Anyway, what I'm really after is a name for the province that was
shed to the Scottish king in the 13th century. I've used a name
before that I'm unhappy with, but I want to keep its initial letter,
which happens to be b, because it's so ingrained in various documents
I have. So Bunty seemed to be a good candidate.

Since it's so old, it would have been known to the Britons. Severe
changes happen to the Brittonic language from the time of the AS
conquests, and the modern Welsh name for the county will be Fint if I
have understood Jackson correctly. (Assuming the u really is long. If
it's short, it will be Fwnt, which I rather like, BTW.)

Anglo-Saxon could have borrowed the word from the Britons before this
metamorphosis, in which case it would suffer the later i-umlauting
and become a modern Bint. Or they could have borrowed it later and
call it Fint or Funt, depending on the length of the original u.

However, since the Norse were the first to settle there, I will allow
them to name the province. Assuming that the name was known to them
as well from an early date, I think they would interpret it as an I-
stem BuntiR in Proto-Norse, and it seems to me it will become Bynt in
Old Norse, whether the vowel is long or short (Býnt if it's long).
Probably by then, they will have appended -land, and called the
province Byntarland, with a regular fem. i-stem genitive.

Now, if this were borrowed into English, we would probably get y>i
parallel to other ON loans, and possibly eventually the genitive
ending would be lost altogether, giving a modern Bintland.

Have I done some big blunders along all this, or are you with me?

The name Uriania is in fact taken from classical literature (in my
conworld, that is). It was popularised by the Bintlanders during
their struggle for independence in the 19th and 20th centuries and
adopted for the whole country when the republic was united in 1934.
In fact, the modern Urianian reflect of the name is Erin (believe it
or not). Uria, the name of the university town, also is a modern
coinage based on the classical name of the country.

This Erin reminds me of another Irish connection that I believe I've
mentioned here before. The northern coastal town of Jurian, one of
the very first names I made up in my conworld, gave me a big shock
when it turned out to be the modern Urianian reflect of the ancient
name for Ireland, assuming the Old Urianians had borrowed it as
Iwerjonos. Maybe some Irishmen had settled there, or maybe it had
trade connections with the country, or maybe the Urianians, people of
Erin, felt some kind of brotherhood with the other people of Erin and
named a town after them - who knows?

Most dictionaries around the world will have Uriania as the
dictionary entry for the country, including the Scandinavian and
English ones. But of course, the Welsh dictionary will have Fwnt. (I
think I will go for that, and a short u in Bunty.)

Now I've done a lot of conworlding today. Freelancer's privilege. But
I better start getting some work done to meet my deadlines. See you
around.

LEF

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