Of artlangs & engelangs (was: what is a loglang?)

On Saturday, May 8, 2004, at 03:33 PM, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:

[snip]
>> Engelang IMO is a wider & vaguer term, but is useful in distinguishing
>> one
>> set of conlangs; altho, e.g. Tolkien worked on Quenya & Sindarin over
>> many
>> decades, we would not, I think, class them as engelangs but rather as
>> artlangs.
>
> They are certainly artlangs.
We agree  :)

> I wouldn't even classify a language like
> Brithenig, which, in its design, is guided by a well-defined programme
> (in this example, a Romance language that has undergone Welsh-like
> changes), as an engelang, as the whole project is rather artistic in
> nature.
I don't think we can draw hard & fast boundaries; there are fuzzy areas.
No one would dispute that Paris is French & Berlin is German. But
Strasbourg is another matter. It has changed hands many times and
historically claims can be made either way (no matter where the
contemporary border happens to be). Similarly, we unhesitatingly put
Quenya in the artlang camp & Livagian in the engelang camp. Brithening,
maybe, is in such a 'borderlanf'.

Brithenig certainly has strong claims to be an engelang. It was certainly
engineered to meet criteria that can (largely) be measured. If you also
find Brithenig artistic, then that is a bonus.

What Andrew Smith did was rather more than merely playing around with the
(almost inevitable) Romance conlang as very many of us have done at some
time or another and, in his case, 'Welshifying' it. No, it was an attempt
to _reconstruct_ what the current language of Britain might be like if the
Vulgar Latin of urban Romano-Britain had not collapse under the influx of
Saxon & other Germanic settlers from the 6th cent. onwards. There was
considerable research mae by Andrew & nothing was introduced unless it
could be justified. It was Andrew's care & research that attracted me to
the project and led me to collaborate with Andrew in the final stages. It
was certainly engineered and it would be possible to measure the degree of
success Brithenig achieves in meeting its objectives.

Ray
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