Re: Irish Gaelic is evil!

Sgrìobh Stephen:
> Fair enough. Basically, it's a regional variation in 
> pronunciation. It was John Cowan who mentioned before
> on this list that the two pronunciations were used to 
> distinguish the languages where necessary;
 
Ha! So John Cowan *doesn't* know everything! ;-‏þ
 
Just kidding. That usage does seem to be growing in popularity. I personally say
/g&lIk/ when talking to Scots and /gEjlIk/ to everyone else, for the sake of
consistency -- and I have been corrected by Americans (and Scots hearing me
talk to non-Scots) who said things like "/gEjlIk/ is what they speak in
Ireland, in Scotland we speak /g&lIk/". Which is, of course, utter nonsense!
:-)
 
A similar usage does seem to be entering Scottish Gaelic, though, in certain
circles, especially among more younger, more politically active Gaels (at
places like Sabhal Mòr Ostaig for example) -- I've heard "Gaeilge" being used
in Scottish Gaelic conversations to refer to Irish, rather than the usual
"Gàidhlig na h-Èireann" ("Gaelic of Ireland"). I don't know how widespread
this is, though.
 
> clearly the distinction isn't made very often here (in Ireland or 
> Scotland), but I took his statement to mean that in the greater
> English-speaking world (i.e. the US) it was a common convention.
 
Possibly. Personally, I usually say "Irish Gaelic" or "Scottish Gaelic" if I have to
specify. I have noticed up in Cape Breton, that the older people up there call
the Scottish Gaelic they speak /gEjlIk/, but that younger learners, especially
those who have been over to Scotland to study, call it /g&lIk/.
 
> But I was trying to suggest that, in Ireland at least,
> it's very odd to hear Irish being referred to (in English!)
> as "Gaelic" or "Irish Gaelic". It has an
> unpleasant ring to it, for reasons nothing to do with the
> cultural unity of Gaeldom; I'm not sure what it is. My hunch
> is it goes back to the bad old days of pre-Gaelic (!)
> revival, when Ireland was part of the UK, when Irish was 
> less widely appreciated, both by the distant government & 
> civil service in London, and by UK-ified locals.
 
I have always suspected the same. I've even heard some Irish people claim that
the term "Gaelic" is considered derogatory in Ireland! (Though I've only ever
heard "Gaelic football", never "Irish football"...)
 
> But anyway, I'm not too happy about these opinions that 
> you're responding to. I expressed them because they've been
> my impression for quite a while, but in recent times my 
> ideas about the relationship between Ireland and "Gaeldom" have 
> changed a bit... I haven't necessarily gotten around to updating
> all my opinions, so I occasionally say something silly :).
 
That's all right... I think four years studying Gaelic at a Scottish university
caused me to absorb some of the Scottish Gaelic sensitivity towards "Irish
cultural imperialism" ;-), so I tend to get a little prickly too. More around
my ignorant fellow Americans than around Irishmen or Scots, but still. :-)
 
> On the subject of cultural unity and all that, I was 
> browsing in a bookstore the other day when I came
> across a book in the language section (misplaced from 
> somewhere else, I think) called "An leabhar mòr",
 
That is such a beautiful book! The calligraphy is incredible. I'm desperate for a
copy of my own, but it costs £35, which works out to nearly $50 US at the
current crappy exchange rate, so it'll be a while. :-(
 
Thomas