Re: Irish Gaelic is evil!

Thomas Leigh wrote:

Scríobh Tomás:

> Oooh, a Gaelic argument! :-)
> Sgrìobh Stephen:
>> First: "Gaelic" or "Scots Gaelic" (pronounced ["galIk]) is the
>> name of the Goidelic language of Scotland. In Ireland we call
>> our Goidelic language "Irish", not "Gaelic" or "Irish Gaelic".
>> The word "Gaelic" is still used (e.g. in the name of the Gaelic
>> Athletic Association), but it's then pronounced ["gajlIk]).
>
>
>
> There is a widespread misconception –- not that Stephen is guilty of this, but
> his message leans
 > somewhat in this direction -- that /g&lIk/ is the language of Scotland and
/gEjlIk/ is the language
 > of Ireland, in other words that /g&lIk/ and /gEjlIk/ are two separate
things. However this is not
 > true: /g&lIk/ and /gEjlIk/ are mere regional variants in pronunciation of one and the exact same
 > word, meaning “of or pertaining to the Gaels” (who, of course, live in
both Ireland and Scotland).
 > In Scotland alone, i.e. in Scots and Scottish English, the pronunciation of the word is /g&lIk/;
 > everywhere else in the Anglophone world the pronunciation is /gEjlIk/,
including Cape Breton, where
 > the Gaels speak Scottish Gaelic. (And likewise, in the Celtic department at
the Scottish university
 > I went to, reference was often made to “Irish /g&lIk/”.)
>
Fair enough. Basically, it's a regional variation in pronunciation. It was John Cowan who mentioned
before on this list that the two pronunciations were used to distinguish the
languages where necessary;
clearly the distinction isn't made very often here (in Ireland or Scotland), but I
took his statement
to mean that in the greater English-speaking world (i.e. the US) it was a common convention.


> And while it is true that in Ireland, Irish Gaelic is always called “Irish”
> (and likewise, Manx
 > Gaelic is called simply “Manx” in the Isle of Man) the full form
“Irish Gaelic” is not uncommon
 > elsewhere. It is also true that Scottish Gaelic is called simply
“Gaelic” in Scotland, but then
 > it’s the only sort there is, so there’s no need to distinguish (not to
mention the fact that the
 > name “Scots” already refers to a different language!). However, all of
these distinctions are
 > made only in English. When speaking Gaelic of any variety, it is always
“Gaelic”: Irish “Gaeilge”,
> ,Scottish “Gàidhlig”, Manx “Gaelg”. It’s those darn English speaking folk
> that like to keep “Irish”
 > stuff distinct from “Scottish” stuff; once you switch into Gaelic,
though, it’s all about the
> cultural unity! ;-)

Ok, I'm guilty of overstating the case :) :). But I was trying to suggest that, in
Ireland at least,
it's very odd to hear Irish being referred to (in English!) as "Gaelic" or "Irish
Gaelic". It has an
unpleasant ring to it, for reasons nothing to do with the cultural unity of Gaeldom; I'm not sure
what it is. My hunch is it goes back to the bad old days of pre-Gaelic (!) revival, when Ireland
was part of the UK, when Irish was less widely appreciated, both by the distant government & civil
service in London, and by UK-ified locals.

But anyway, I'm not too happy about these opinions that you're responding to. I
expressed them because
they've been my impression for quite a while, but in recent times my ideas about the relationship
between Ireland and "Gaeldom" have changed a bit... I haven't necessarily gotten around to updating
all my opinions, so I occasionally say something silly :).

On the subject of cultural unity and all that, I was browsing in a bookstore the
other day when I came
across a book in the language section (misplaced from somewhere else, I think) called
"An leabhar mòr",
which was a large (expensive :() coffee-table type of book containing poems in
Gàidhlig/Gaeilge and
Old Irish on the left hand pages and paintings and sketches on the right - very
nice. But what really
impressed me was the photograph near the start, which you can see in a much reduced
version here [*] on
the book's website, of Ireland, Man and Scotland, looking northwest so that
"Gaeldom" stretched across
the page and that pesky Sassanach kingdom to the south-east :) was hidden. The
Somhairle MacGill-Eain
poem on the webpage appears by the photo in the book, too.

[*] http://www.leabharmor.net/about.html

> Le deagh dhùrachd and all that,
> Tòmas
le meas,
--
Stiofán Ó Maoilbreanainn  ataltane@ataltane.net
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas l'Informatique
                    -- Bosquet, on seeing the IBM 4341