Re: OT: Latin subject-verb agreement

>"T. A. McLeay" <conlang@...> wrote:
>They're special. I don't know all the details, but in English you say
>things like "It's me", whereas decent languages with proper
>nominative first person singular pronouns say "It's I", or "Me and
>John went for a run" or "Jack beat John and I". Similar bugs can be
>found in all the English pronouns ("Us English speakers don't use
>pronouns properly all the time", "Latin speakers did case better
>than we English speakers").
>I don't know all the details,...
I'm trying very hard not to sound rude, but IMO you don't know any of
the details.

>...in English you say...
Am I correct in believing that English is not your L1?  You can still
hear some of us say (depending on the milieu), "It is I."  And
serious works still use it, as in the English translation of the
Biblical story of Jesus walking on the water, wherein he says, "It is
I.  Do not be afraid."

>...whereas decent languages with proper nominative first person
>singular pronouns say "It's I",...
Do I assume, then, that French is not a decent language because the
French say, "c'est moi"?  I believe this is known as the disjunctive
pronoun.  It seems to be taking over in English.  Just another
example of the growth of the language.

>"Jack beat John and I"
Yes, many speakers of English (Americans, at least) have a problem
with compound subjects or objects.  This is usually a problem of
hypercorrection.  We've had the use of "I" drummed into our heads so
much that we use it ALL the time.  Perhaps this is another detail you
didn't know.  However, there are still those of us who know how to
use these pronouns properly.  Perhaps you need a little more exposure
to those of us who speak the language prescriptively.  And even we
know how to use incorrect expressions for effect.  I've been known to
say "ain't" in a homily!

>"Us English speakers..."
Likewise with appositive expressions.

>"Latin speakers did case better than we English speakers").
I finally figured out what you were trying to say.  I would have
said, "used cases," but that's just me, (whoops, I).  However, while
the classical writers may have used the Latin cases properly, I
find it hard to believe that the hoi polloi did not misuse them.  I
should think that this "misuse" of the cases was what led (at least
in part) to the development of the Romance languages.

Charlie

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