(OT) Breton

, Stephen Mulraney <ataltanie@...> writes:

> On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 20:26:29 EST
> Elliott Lash <AL260@...> wrote (> > >):
> > Stephen Mulraney <ataltanie@...> (> >):
> > > Elliot Lash <AL260@...> wrote (>):
>
[snip]
>
> > Yes, well known to me. Pronounced /ISe/ at least in my book.
>
> I think this verifies that 'sea' is just a contraction of 'is ea', especially
> because I feel uncomfortable about writing 'sea' and uncomfortable about saying
> 'is ea'. In practice I'd use one in speech and the other one in writing, pronouncing
> 'is ea' as 'sea', i.e. /Sa/ [you could be right about the vowel being /e/, but
> I haven't really got the hand of SAMPA yet - the vowel I want is a little back
> from the a of 'hat', but not very near the a of 'father']. O, there's a little
> glide between the /S/ and the vowel, at least in my idiolect [which is not to
> be trusted really, since it's the result of learning (badly) as a child from
> multiple teachers with multiple dialects, forgetting it for 8 years and then
> learning more systematically.... ;)]
>
Ok, so maybe we should go with /IS'&/ or /S'&] for abbreviation. The /&/ is the
sound in (for my dialect)the word /k&t/ <cat>

> > > If I have a point it might be that since in Irish the word for yes (typically
> > > you'd just repeat the verb with or without negation, to answer a question)
> > > probably comes from the copula, might it be the same in Breton?
> > > I know that Irish & Breton aren't really so closely related, despite being
> > > both Celtic, but I'd still be suprised if the Brythonic/p-branch side of
> > > the family didn't have a copula. Anyway how would you say 'it is' in Breton?
> > > Anything like 'ya' or 'sea'
> >
> > eo /e/ or /ew/.
> [snip]
> > Though I doubt they're cognate to the copula, since they are not used where
>  copular repitition conveys affirmation. And also, the Welsh copula is /iw/, from /@diw/.
>
> Ah, that's what I was rummaging for ;). So if you're right the Brythonic langs actually
> have a non-verbal non-copula word for yes... though I think my Irish copula-derived 'yes'
> (sea) is attaining this status, in that it might be alright to use it in response to
> a verb-question too.

Well, recent discussions on this topic on this list indicate what I already knew and
what I kind of withheld. Welsh /iE/ and Breton /ja/ are only used in a very
restricted set of constructions. Usually however, it is like you say that
Brythonic languages repeat the copula in Affirmation sentences.
>
> > Now that I'm back in my University, I think I'll go to the library and check this out.
>
> Tell me what you find!
>
> > But..surely 'yes' is a basic vocabulary member?
>
> Yes, sorry, I didn't phrase it very well. I meant you shd look for cognates in, especially
> nouns, verbs, and adjectives rather than (slightly) more 'functional' words like 'yes' -
> since languages' development is more likely to preserve 'meanings' than 'structures' -
> in the sense that it would be a loss for a lang to drop the word for 'fire' while
> no-one (but linguists) would really miss e.g. the loss of one way of answering in the
> affirmative in favour of another. Warning: this argument is unstable and likely to
> topple at the slightest investigation.

haha, and investigate I shall.. as I have no way of knowing how to respond at the moment.