Re: Verb-second ... verb-penultimate languages?
| From: | R A Brown <ray@...> |
|---|
| Date: | Sunday, April 23, 2006, 8:36 |
|---|
Chris Bates wrote:
>>
>> I'm actually not meaning this a criticism so much as a query. Do
>> clauses count as topics, especially one like the above?
>>
> In some languages they can do, or at least behave very similarly.
Yes, I agree.
> An
> example is in Lisu, where the same marker nya both marks NPs as topic
> and also marks many conditional clauses (and background information, as
> in your example). This is because conditions and background information
> have much in common with topical referents in the fact that they tend to
> be well established and, as it were, "background" information rather
> than new asserted information. Example:
Yes, I think in earlier email I should made a clearer distinction
between established information new asserted information.
===============================================
Chris Bates wrote:
>> It seems to me, however, that pushing the topic to the end of a
>> sentence or clause is a very odd thing to do. There are examples of
>> putting focus last, but that's a different matter & not all sentences
>> have focus.
>
>
> In fact, it's not an odd thing to do at all.
Yes, I see I was over-simplifying things :)
[snip]
> It's typically *new* topics or topics being reestablished after a break
> which occur at the start of the clause... old, established topics tend
> to be left towards the end of the clause unless, of course, they're
> simply realized by a zero anaphor.
Yes - I should have said _emphasized_ topics in my previous email, i.e.
a new topic or the re-establishment of a previous topic. Thus in the
example Jo gave:
"Weil ich der Koenig bin, sollte ich mein Land regieren
Because I am the King, I should govern my country "
'Because I am king' is clearly re-emphasizing known background material.
[snip]
I would reword my earlier comments. What I perhaps should have said is
that in V2 languages, the 'normal' unmarked word order is:
SUBJECT + VERB + REST OF SENTENCE
but when a topic is emphasized (either because it is a new topic or an
established one is re-introduced) the order is:
TOPIC + VERB + SUBJECT + REST OF SENTENCE
Even that is almost certainly an oversimplification and I suspect a
whole tome could be written on the matter. But the point is that in a
"verb-penult" language, what is the single element that would always be
put after the verb in unmarked sentences?
--
Ray
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