Re: Cases and adpositions

In a message dated 08/2/02 5:19:16 AM, matrix14@COMCAST.NET writes:

<< How unnatural is this?  Are there any natlangs that do not make this

distinction?  I am considering dropping most of the cases and replacing

them with prepositions.  Is this more 'natural'?  Comments would be

appreciated. ;-) >>

    And other people wrote a bunch of stuff, too.
    Isn't this common knowledge?  I'm learning Turkish right now, which has
all noun cases and post-positions (both can coexist comfortably).  I don't
know how many cases.  With these kind of languages, number doesn't matter.
The noun cases tend to be more regular than, say, Latin, so that memorizing a
noun case is pretty much the same as memorizing a preposition.  The only
thing with Turkish is that it has vowel harmony, same as Hungarian, and also
the same as my language, /Zyler/.  Here are my cases, so far:
    (Some notes: I realize this looks like a mess, so if you're not that
interested, I'd suggest skipping it, and just taking my word that I've got 55
noun cases there, and not all are locative.  The /2/ is supposed to be a
front, mid rounded vowel [I forget whether it's /2/ or /9/ that's the tense
version].  Any time you see a capital letter in there that looks like it
should be a vowel, that's an underspecified vowel which gains its
specification from the preceeding vowel, which gives Zyler it's vowel harmony
system.  When you see (r/z) or (l/n), that's due to a phonological rule,
whereby you can't have two liquids in a row--well, you can have geminates
[rr] and [ll], but you can't have *lVl or *rVr, so in these cases, the second
liquid is replaced by [n] and [z], respectively.  There's also some
word-final devoicing going on.  It affects all obstruents except sibilants.
Any time you see an asterisk, that means that that suffix can be used with
verbs and nouns [this is because I just pasted this directly from my
reference section].  Also, if you see a case name you don't recognize, or you
think is defined differently, then you're probably right; I just made up na
mes for some of these because they had to have names.  If you can give me the
proper names, I'd be grateful.  That should be it.)

Noun Cases:
1.) Nominative: --: 2kk2 (hand)
2.) Accusative: -(r/z)/-A(r/z): 2kk2r (hand [obj.])
3.) Dative: -s/-lRs: 2kk2s (to the hand)
4.) Genitive: -v/-Uv: 2kk2f (of the hand)
5.) Instrumental: -t/-At: 2kk2t (by means of the hand)
6.) Aninstrumental: -(r/z)At: 2kk2ret (without use of a hand)
7.) Benefactive: -fl/-(w)Wfl/-QwWfl: 2kk2fl (for the hand)
8.) Malefactive: -(r/z)XS: 2kk2reS (on the hand)
9.) Vocative: -A/-jA/-(j)JjA: 2kk2joja (O, hand!)
10.) Commitative: -n/-(j)En/-AjEn: 2kk2n (with the hand)
11.) Anacommitative: -rXn: 2kk2ren (without the hand)
12.) Locative: -k/-Ik: 2kk2k (at/around the hand)
13.) Allative: -w/-Qw: 2kk2w (towards the hand)
14.) Inessive: -z/-Bz: 2kk2z (in the hand, ¯at¯ [temp.])
15.) Inlative: -Z/-BZ: 2kk2Z (into the hand)
16.) Abessive: -d/-Id: 2kk2t (away from the hand)
17.) Ablative: -D/-ID: 2kk2T (from the hand)
18.) Exessive: -g/-gB: 2kk2k (out from the hand)
19.) Exlative: -gBm: 2kk2Gam (out of the hand)
20.) Inessive: -b/-bU: 2kk2p (inside the hand)
21.) Inlative: -bUm: 2kk2bym (into the hand)
22.) Enessive: -s/-sN: 2kk2s (on [top of] the hand)
23.) Enlative: -sNm: 2kk2s2m (onto the hand)
24.) Dessive: -dZ/-dZA: 2kk2tS (not on the hand)
25.) Delative: -dZAm: 2kk2dZem (off of the hand)
26.) Subessive: -vAj: 2kk2vej (under the hand)
27.) Sublative: -vAm: 2kk2vem ([go] under the hand)
28.) Supressive: -(l/n)Aj: 2kk2lej (above the hand)
29.) Suplative: -(l/n)Am: 2kk2lem (over the hand)
30.) Proessive: -nOj: 2kk2noj (in front of, ¯after¯ [temp.] the hand)
31.) Prolative: -nOm: 2kk2nom ([go] in front of the hand)
32.) Postessive: -mXj: 2kk2mej (behind, ¯before¯ [temp.] the hand)
33.) Postlative: -mXm: 2kk2mem ([go] behind the hand)
34.) Translative: -kQm/-kQmo: 2kk2komo ([go] through the hand)
35.) Topical: -(l/n)Av/-(l/n)Av2: 2kk2lev2 (about the hand)
36.) Becausative: -tSQd/-tSQdu: 2kk2tSodu (because of the hand)
37.) Focus/Oblique: -tFk/-tFxi: 2kk2texi (with respect to the hand)
38.) Authorative: -zIn/-zInI: 2kk2zyny (by the hand)
39.) Contrative: -DIv/-DIvy: 2kk2Dyvy (against the hand)
40.) Adverbial: -F/-sF: 2kk2se (hand-ly)
41.) Possessive: -jE: 2kk2j2 (¯on¯ the hand, the hand has)
42.) Interrogative: -vFt*: 2kk2vet (which/what hand)
43.) Conjunctive: -nAm: 2kk2, kozbol, balakfennem (the hand, the palm and the
gorilla)
44.) Discriminatory (Inclusive): -tFn: 2kk2, kozbolten (either the hand or
the palm, or both)
45.) Discriminatory (Exclusive): -tFz: 2kk2, kozboltez (either the hand or
the palm, but not both)
46.) Monoexclusive: -(r/z)Al: 2kk2, kozbol, balakfenrel (the hand and palm,
but not the gorilla)
47.) Exclusive: -(r/z)Rn: 2kk2, kozbolr2n (neither the hand nor the palm)
48.) Durative: -kFl*: volg2kel (for a short time)
49.) Equative: -(l/n)XZ: 2kk2leZ (like a hand)
50.) Inequative: -(r/z)XZ: 2kk2reZ (unlike a hand)
51.) Comparative: -tIs*: 2kk2tys (more of a hand, than...)
52.) Contrastive: -sIv: 2kk2syf (than the hand)
53.) Superlative: -lAm*: 2kk2lem (the handest of all)
54.) Comprisative: -bYS: 2kk2b2S (made of/from a hand)
55.) Distributive*: -zFr, 2kk2jzer (each hand separately)

-David

"fawiT, Gug&g, tSagZil-a-Gariz, wAj min DidZejsat wazid..."
"Soft, driven, slow and mad, like some new language..."
                    -Jim Morrison