Re: Attributive Nominal Forms and Syntax in a lang experiment

--- JR <fuscian@...> wrote:
> on 11/20/03 4:45 PM, Elliott Lash at
> erelion12@YAHOO.COM wrote:
>
> > --- JR <fuscian@...> wrote:
> >> on 11/19/03 11:39 AM, Elliott Lash at
> >> erelion12@YAHOO.COM wrote:
> >
> > *snip*
> >
> >>> Take this case:
> >>> nga lo kwa tshiji be      hao
> >>> I   not see person start  talk
> >>>
> >>> I don't see the person who is starting to talk.
> >>> I didn't see the person who was starting to
> talk.
> >>>
> >>> etc.
> >>>
> >>> tshiji person-pre:attrb.
> >>> tshije person
> >>
> >> Okay. On a different note, how do you tell what
> the
> >> head noun's role in the
> >> relative clause is? How do you know that "bunlu
> zoy"
> >> doesn't mean "soup that
> >> heats (something)"?
> >
> >
> > Interesting question...I'm not sure if I really
> need
> > to. I think plenty of languages leave this
> unmarked.
> >
> > Welsh for example:
> >
> > Dyma'r dyn ffoniodd Fred
> > "this is the man who Fred phoned"
> > or
> > "this is the man who phoned Fred"
> >
> > since alot is left up to the context already
> (i.e.,
> > tenses), then this seems like one option.
> >
> > If less ambiguity is needed, I guess a resumptive
> > pronoun can be used:
> >
> > myezai 'bear'
> > myeze 'bear-attr'
> > kun 'eat'
> > ta 'him,he'
> >
> > shi ni            myeze     ta kun (ta)
> > exist this-attr   bear-attr he eat (he)
> >
> > only means:
> > 'this is the bear that he ate'
> >
> > shi ni myeze kun ta
> >
> > means both:
> > 'this is the bear that he ate'
> > 'this is the bear that ate him'
>
> How come the first sentence has only one
> interpretation and the second has
> two? Since the language seems to be SVO, I'd expect
> the first to mean "this
> is the bear he ate" only, and the second "this is
> the bear that ate him"
> only (like in English).
>

Good catch, that was me messing up. I dont have any
idea what I was talking about there. The first would
have the change of subject meaning, the second would
be no change.

Elliott

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