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Re: coexisting case question

From:Eric Christopherson <rakko@...>
Date:Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 17:54
On Sep 9, 2008, at 12:40 PM, Henrik Theiling wrote:

> Hi! > > Eldin Raigmore writes: >> ... >>> 'Construct state'. It is a different category from 'case'. >> >> Doesn't "state" also have "definite" and "indefinite", and/or >> possibly "specific/referential" and "nonspecific/nonreferential", as >> values? Or is that true only in some languages with a "construct >> state", but not in, for instance, Arabic? Or am I just confused? > > Definite/indefinite is precisely the point here: the construct state > has the same noun form as the definite state, only instead of an > article, a different defining clause comes into play: the genitive > noun.
Not quite. Feminine nouns in -a take -at in the construct, but not in the definite. (I'm not sure if other nouns besides feminines in -a have a different marking...) However, AIUI a noun in the construct state is understood to be semantically definite (there is a circumlocution that must be used to say "a book of the father"). Construct state nouns are not allowed to take the definite article <al->; nor can they take the final <-n> that indefinites sometimes take.
> >> ... >> I wasn't aware of that! What're a few good uses of nouns in >> construct state and genitive case simultaneously? >> ... > > It occurs regularly in chained genitive constructions: > > father's book's page > > 'book' would be in both construct state and genitive case. > > **Henrik
Alex Fink wrote:
>>> But for quantities: >>> I-NOM hold glass-REVGEN wine-ACC. >>> I am holding a glass of wine. >>> >>> We might even label this last example as "quantitative case". >>> What's in a name, but it looks a lot more plausible like this :) >>> >> >> This actually looks like what's called the partitive case in Finnish >> and maybe some other languages. >> > > But it's the reverse of the partitive case, no? Just as the construct > (being agnostic as to whether that's a case or a state or what, > which surely > is language-dependent) is the reverse of the genitive. It would > still be > glass-ACC wine-PART using a partitive.
Oops; you're right.


Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>